I built a 450 Rigby on a Johannsen action and the floor plate release engagement is just too darn small.

In the past, I have made a "safety button," on the rear of the release button...lot of work!

Anyone out there seen something new and brilliant that will still allow function of the hinged floorplate?

Super strong spring still allows an occasional failure

Pictures sure would help. I don't know exactly what the Johannsen release looks like.

I believe Echols says its all in the geometry, but you already know anything I could tell you.

quote:

Johannsen action

I take it this is what you're looking at Duane? I'm grasping at straws but in the past on other wells like this that liked to pop open on recoil I have made a conical nosed pin like that found on some of the production guns and drilled a hole into the latch to accept it and then increased the travel of the latch a bit to allow the latch to disengage with the increased purchase gained with the pin and decreased the spring pressure to get the required travel without the spring fully loading up. (usually with a softer spring) You would have to take some ZACKERY measurements to see if you have enough material to play with. Thats all I got.


johannsen by Rod Henrickson, on Flickr

When she was small my niece said that I was a real good colorererer too. The nose of the pin must be conical to gain clearance as the latch rotates on its axis.

floor plate pin by Rod Henrickson, on Flickr

I forget who I stole the idea from. It's been a solution for me a couple of times, providing you have enough space and material to get the required throw out of the latch.

If the damned, 2-bit engineers these days would just balance the latches so that they weigh the same above an below the pivot point, they wouldn't need much more than a ballpoint pen spring to hold the latch closed. As it is they normally make the lower portion weigh twice as much as the upper and on recoil the whole affair moves rearward and stores up a whole whack of kinetic energy. Then, when the gun slams into the shooter the latch keeps going and it opens up the floor plate. Or they make the top end too heavy and it opens up on acceleration. Rather than put some brains into the design they dump in a heavier spring which keeps it closed MOST of the time but you need a tire iron, shark and a white rat on cocaine to get the fool thing open.

T H E J A C K A S S E S

I have a very early post war commercial Yugoslavian action, with the neatest little side lever floor plate release. It looks very tidy, and works great.

To this day I do not know why someone like Duane does not borrow it and offer them at a decent price.

A gentleman of Ebay offers one of sorts, that is just an extended pin that sticks below the hole about 1/4th inch.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I have a very early post war commercial Yugoslavian action, with the neatest little side lever floor plate release. It looks very tidy, and works great.

To this day I do not know why someone like Duane does not borrow it and offer them at a decent price.

A gentleman of Ebay offers one of sorts, that is just an extended pin that sticks below the hole about 1/4th inch.

Rich

When done properly and kept nice and trim those side levers are just cute-as-a-bug ! They also work very well too. I actually saw one that operated backwards on an old pre-64 one time. I don't know who made it but it had a plate about the size of a nickel with initials in it in the center of the floor plate where it swiveled and a sculpted arm which slid to the side and engaged a notch with a ball in it in the front of the trigger guard. I have always meant to make one. So simple that a chimp could make it. That's probably why it interested me so much. LOL

It's a shame you do not live on this side of the border. I'd be okay with letting you borrow it and offer them for sale.

Rich

Along those lines without the blocky, wavy and ugly. Maybe it's just the engraving or the gilded pachyderm that's got me swallowing bile. Its actually hard to make those levers look like they're not a paste on or an afterthought. I've made a few over the years. I've also thrown a lot in the trash pail and started over many times. Too thin. Too fat. Too short. Too long. Thumb pawl too large. Thumb pawl too small. Fuck it. Damn it. Stupid customer. Dumb idea. I want my mommy. I need a drink!

lever floorplate by Rod Henrickson, on Flickr

Speerchucker30x378 you really make this forum a better place. Information and a laugh. Thanks for posting.

Idaho Sharpshooter: The extended floor plate releases were in 1951 FN commercial actions. You can occasionally find them on ebay.

use duct tape on mine

shotgun,

I'll sell you a set of medium and fine tip Sharpies for $20. You could get into engraving...

Duane,

yes, and of all things, it's on an early post-ww (I think) commercial YUGO. A small thing, about an inch and an eighth long, and narrow. The lever only sticks up about a quarter of an inch and is an elongated tear drop shape.

I'll try and send you a couple pictures next week.

have a look at Jon Speed's book "Original Oberndorf Sportig Rifles", page 129. There is a detailed drawing of the Mauser latch geometry that works. Every time. No re-invention necessary.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I have a very early post war commercial Yugoslavian action, with the neatest little side lever floor plate release. It looks very tidy, and works great.

To this day I do not know why someone like Duane does not borrow it and offer them at a decent price.

A gentleman of Ebay offers one of sorts, that is just an extended pin that sticks below the hole about 1/4th inch.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by thirdbite:
Actually, I think those were sold in the later 1960's as VZ500 by a dealer in Covina, CA, if I remember correctly. They were the same as Yugo 48 except no thumb cut. They had flat bolt handles. Those actions with regular bolt handles similar to an FN were also used by FW Heym to make rifles sold by Montgomery Ward as Model 720 EHM. Herter's also used those actions for some of their model XK3 although they had a Browning style ejector housing rather than the ejector box of most mausers. Don't think early FN Mausers ever came with the lever type release - they used a non-hinged floorplate with a button added to release them like a 98 Mauser except you didn't have to poke something into the hole to release the floorplate. Later,the FN Supreme action used a hinged floorplate like the Browning Mausers.

They still employed them in the '60s.


Here is 1 of 2 VZ500 actions I bought for $135 each back in 2000.


A forum member researcedh them & they were imported by Herters as well as others in the 1960s. He bought a couple of them too.

Finished up into a nice Classic Oberndorf when coupled W/an exceptional 98K take-off barrel that Dennis Olson turned down for me.


Shoots 200gr bullets < 1/2" @ 100yds too.

I have a spring detent side lever floor plate mechanism that works great. Nate Heineke built on my two bolt guns. Very attractive and functional feature.

That's what I liked about the backward release Duane. I wish I had taken a picture of it. But it was back in the days before digital photography.

The blocky bit of steel at the front of a military Mauser trigger guard had been thinned out with a ball mill. Then a square notch was cut into it for the leaver to engage. The pivot point of the leaver was about 1/3rd up the floor plate and it was disengaged by pushing the leaver to one side so that it cleared the notch at the front of the guard. I think the leaver may have been made first and then the leaver and front of the guard were milled together. It was a very neat and slick made thing and was in no way obtrusive. It sat maybe 1/10th of an inch on top of the floor plate. Some one took a lot of time and thinking to dream it up and it looked dead simple to reproduce.

I think the only reason I didn't try to make one was that it was before the days of carbide and milling on those old Mauser floor plate/trigger guard arrays was an invitation to Kennemetal for the high priced HSS enema !

Quote Speerchucker-

"I think the only reason I didn't try to make one was that it was before the days of carbide and milling on those old Mauser floor plate/trigger guard arrays was an invitation to Kennemetal for the high priced HSS enema !"

??? The ones that I've played with have just been mild steel, even free machining according to some sources.

Wildcat Junkie,

that's it. I found out yesterday a friend has a couple of them, and they are identical.

I am having a couple of customs built on 1909 Argentines, and would love to have a couple sets made.

thanks,

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Wildcat Junkie,

that's it. I found out yesterday a friend has a couple of them, and they are identical.

I am having a couple of customs built on 1909 Argentines, and would love to have a couple sets made.

thanks,

Rich

I bought those from a guy in Idaho. Maybe the same person?

here is the link to the one Rich was talking about on eBay. This guy bought a gunsmith's estate and has quite a selection of Mauser stuff as well as quite a bit of inventory. He also has the extended length FN style release.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mauser...6:g:Jb4AAOSwyjBW2hOI

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I have a very early post war commercial Yugoslavian action, with the neatest little side lever floor plate release. It looks very tidy, and works great.

To this day I do not know why someone like Duane does not borrow it and offer them at a decent price.

A gentleman of Ebay offers one of sorts, that is just an extended pin that sticks below the hole about 1/4th inch.

Rich

These lever release mods seem a lot more complicated than need be. The Mauser system uses a triggerguard that is unmodified except for the slot & pin for the pivot at the front of the floor plate.


The lever has a latch plate that engages the same slot in the triggerguard that the military floorplate engages.



The military triggerguard needs to have the notched portion milled off & a stop pin pressed into it.



The rear portion would also need to be built up to provide a level area for the lever to pivot on.



Here are the parts needed for the conversion.



There also needs to be some sort of catch to keep the lever latched in the closed position. The Mauser VZ500 floorplate has a small teat to engage a slot on the underside of the lever. This set-up seems to be holding up well on my Oberndorf Classic sporter that I have been hunting with since 2010.



Finally, here are some pix of the latch in the open & closed positions.

The military Mauser floorplate moves back toward the trigger guard when the release is depressed. Fabricate a small hinge with a slot for a pin for the front of the plate to allow it to move back and put a button release in the plate. Push the button, slide the plate back to open. It will hinge down and forward. The button is less likely to be accidently opened than the lever release or even the trigger guard bow release and the plate is very securely held in position by the original lips.

Jerry Liles

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Liles:
The military Mauser floorplate moves back toward the trigger guard when the release is depressed. Fabricate a small hinge with a slot for a pin for the front of the plate to allow it to move back and put a button release in the plate. Push the button, slide the plate back to open. It will hinge down and forward. The button is less likely to be accidently opened than the lever release or even the trigger guard bow release and the plate is very securely held in position by the original lips.

Jerry Liles

That is what I was thinking about for my 1910 Mexican.

I like the the way they did it in Uruguay

OOOOH. Rich I like. Quite a project but really elegant

Now that, is mighty slick. In 35 years of gun plumbing, I can honestly say that I have never seen that before. It also seems far enough back that it won't affect magazine capacity.

How come it's always the other guys that get all the schmarts ?

quote:

Originally posted by richj:
I the the way they did it in Uruguay

Now that's downright pornographic!

I believe that is an old recknagel product. Doerlac used it on a build in the last few years. I was going to try but never got around to it. Funny have two cnc mills that sit idle for months at a time. The eBay ones that's a funny story. He is a gunsmith at krieghoff and does some real nice Mauser work.
Don

I sometimes find engraving and odd fittings on firearms are often too naff and garish for my pretty subdued tastes but I'll eat my words on this one. That is a great example of expertise, the engraving is wonderful, screw timing spot on, and the whole shebang is so practical. I would be proud to own and especially use that.

quote:

Originally posted by richj:
I like the the way they did it in Uruguay

...................

No they did it not in Uruguay.
The rifle was made by H.J.Walther Germany who also constructed the locking mechanism of the floorplate.
The action he used in that special rifle was a miitary Mauser made for Uruguay.
Walther died years ago in a car accident.

Dorleac rifle

how exactly does it work?

D F T T's

quote:

Originally posted by Don Markey:


Dorleac rifle

quote:

Originally posted by lindy2:
how exactly does it work?

I would assume similar to this one that was posted on page 1 albeit latching into the base of the trigger guard instead of the floorplate.

quote:

Originally posted by richj:
I like the the way they did it in Uruguay

quote:

Originally posted by lindy2:
how exactly does it work?

Lift the lever and is opens.
Don

Im pretty sure Brownells had those horizontal lever releases in stock, at least at one time, may still have them.

The Markey is by far the best of the best IMO..Thats just plumb sexy..