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Remington 141 Scope Mounting
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I have this Remington 141 in the shop for scope mounting. The Weaver catalog calls for a number 27 Front base and a number 20A Rear base. The photo below shows those two bases in position on top of the receiver. I sure looks to me like the Front base is way taller than the rear base. Am I missing something? Can anyone suggest any other mounting options? Am I correct to position the front base on top of the "hump" on the receiver?

Bill Jacobs

Rem141 by jakefromclemson, on Flickr


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Posts: 339 | Location: Greenwood, SC | Registered: 06 February 2004Reply With Quote
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I love the 141s; had many and still have two.
First center fire rifle I ever fired.
I highly advise against drilling holes in one; that reduces the value by 50%. The owner needs to know this fact.
The reason your front one (recommended by Weaver) is so high is because it is supposed to be mounted on the barrel, another very strange and to me, bad idea. More 1940s era thinking.
I guess if you insist on it; you have the wrong bases. Obviously they need to be parallel to the bore. Do not drill into the locking shoulder in the receiver and drilling into the barrel threads is doing it the hard way. I have seen them drilled all over the receiver however.
Just get a piece of Weaver/Pinctinny base stock and put 3 holes in it. I am cringing now, though.
I admit I have never drilled one; it's sacrilege.
 
Posts: 17443 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by dpcd:
I love the 141s; had many and still have two.
First center fire rifle I ever fired.
I highly advise against drilling holes in one; that reduces the value by 50%. The owner needs to know this fact.
The reason your front one (recommended by Weaver) is so high is because it is supposed to be mounted on the barrel, another very strange and to me, bad idea.
I guess if you insist on it; you have the wrong bases. Obviously they need to be parallel to the bore. Do not drill into the locking shoulder in the receiver and drilling into the barrel threads is doing it the hard way. I have seen them drilled all over the receiver however.
Just get a piece of Weaver/Pinctinny base stock and put 3 holes in it. I am cringing now, though.
I admit I have never drilled one; it's sacrilege.


Drilling them surely multiplies the value by at least .5
If your customer is interested, I have an original Lyman or Marbles receiver sight that mounts to the existing holes in the tang.
 
Posts: 248 | Registered: 24 August 2008Reply With Quote
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I have explained to the customer the loss of value that comes with drilling and tapping the gun. He can't see iron sights, does not plan to ever sell the gun, and does not want a peep sight.


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Posts: 339 | Location: Greenwood, SC | Registered: 06 February 2004Reply With Quote
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In that case, I explained to you where the front base goes.
 
Posts: 17443 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
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Any way to fashion a LER mount using the rear sight dovetail as a Picatinny base support? Then use a 1 inch scope ring upside down and attached to the underside to grip the bbl.
 
Posts: 3873 | Location: SC,USA | Registered: 07 March 2002Reply With Quote
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That could certainly be made, but I read that the owner doesn't care.
 
Posts: 17443 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
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So I will ask because I have never tried this. With the adhesives available today could a person contour a base to fit the receiver behind the hump and glue it on? I have used adhesives to hold sights in place for drilling but have never tried just using the adhesive and seeing how long it would hold. Low recoil and a light scope might hold?
C.G.B.
 
Posts: 1112 | Registered: 25 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Thanks for the suggestions. I really don't like the idea of the front base on the barrel, primarily because the barrel is tapered in front of the receiver, and I will be building in ring misalignment from the get-go. I think I will look for a piece of lightweight picatinny rail to see if I can get enough of it on the straight portion of the receiver to mount a pair of rings. It would save a great deal of effort if I can find a base that comes close to the rounded contour of the top of the Remington rifle. Alternately, I guess I could cantilever the front ring over the hump by using a somewhat thicker section of rail cut away on the bottom.

Bill


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Posts: 339 | Location: Greenwood, SC | Registered: 06 February 2004Reply With Quote
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The 14 and 141 did not come from the factory drilled and tapped for a scope. If you D/T, you will be impacting the collector value of the rifle, if that matters to you. I have some 14/141s that have been aftermarket D/T for scope mounts. No two are alike I once bought some Weaver bases off Ebay that were supposed to be for 14/141, or so the Weaver package said. But as I recall, they were not quite right. And none matched the holes in my rifles. There used to be scope mounts that were meant to be epoxied to SKS rifles. These would work with a little reshaping. Some people put both mounts on the receiver. This causes a couple of problems. First, you have to drill into a thin area in the locking recess. Second, the front mount will not be far enough forward for most scopes. This can be solved by using old Redfield Widefield scopes (because they have short eye relief) or compact scopes. IIRC, old Leupold M8s and newer Leupold compact scopes work. But please be sure to check them out for yourself first. Some people have solved the problem by D/T the barrel for the front mount. Unless someone posts an easy answer, I think you will have to pick bases that fit the receiver contour and then D/T the rifle for those bases. If your rifle is already D/T, figuring out which bases were originally used can be a frustrating challenge..


You can try using the old Williams mounts like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/38389...0&ufes_redirect=true

It's not too difficult to find rings for them. They look like these:

https://www.vintagegunscopes.c...?rq=williams%20rings

https://www.vintagegunscopes.c...?rq=williams%20rings




.
 
Posts: 10900 | Location: North of the Columbia | Registered: 28 April 2008Reply With Quote
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Weaver back in the day used to have a pictoral instruction sheet for the instal of the mounts on the 14 and 141.
The base #'s are correct.
The front base does go onto the bbl and it is placed some distance forward of the frame. Not right up against it.

The rear base was shown and stated to be mounted 'in the middle' of the top of the frame. So as not to drill into the locking shoulder of the frame.
 
Posts: 574 | Registered: 08 June 2008Reply With Quote
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I think you have the bases backwards. Turn them around (front to back) and have another look.


"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
 
Posts: 843 | Location: Randleman, NC | Registered: 07 April 2005Reply With Quote
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No; he has the correct bases and they aren't tapered. Turning them around won't change anything. The tall front one goes on the barrel and the rear one goes on the receiver. Just because the barrel is tapered; Weaver didn't care; once you tighten everything up, it will be fine. Except for the drilling holes in it part, but that ship has sailed. As they say.
And for the question, will glue work; the answer is, no.
 
Posts: 17443 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by clowdis:
I think you have the bases backwards. Turn them around (front to back) and have another look.


I think this is an example of reversing the bases.
https://www.gunsinternational....cfm?gun_id=101856286


Jim
 
Posts: 552 | Location: Winter, Wisconsin, USA | Registered: 19 December 2010Reply With Quote
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My first deer rifle I had when still at school was a Model 14 32 Remington and it had a scope mounted on it. My father did a lot of gunsmithing back in the day but not sure if it came with scope mounted or he mounted it. From a somewhat blurry photo taken from a 35mm colour slide, and it appears from the positioning of the rings that the front base is mounted on the receiver 'ring' and the rear base well to the rear of the action. Back then most of the rings and bases used were Parker Hale of which you could obtain the necessary bases, both steel and aluminium, for mounting scopes on a good range of American rifles.

I shot a lot of animals with that 32 Remington and don't recall ever having to shoot the scope in after setting it for the Dominion ammo I used.
 
Posts: 3944 | Location: Rolleston, Christchurch, New Zealand | Registered: 03 August 2009Reply With Quote
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A bit off topic----SORRY! But is it true a pointed bullet could be used in the spiral magazine tube of the Rem. M141 safely?

Not than it would be necessary/needed/or a good idea but JUST CURIOUS!

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Posts: 1904 | Location: Long Island, New York | Registered: 04 January 2008Reply With Quote
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Yes. I routinely use pointy bullets in mine. The spiral mag allows for that.
 
Posts: 17443 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
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THANKS! Tom
 
Posts: 1904 | Location: Long Island, New York | Registered: 04 January 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Clemson:
Thanks for the suggestions. I really don't like the idea of the front base on the barrel, primarily because the barrel is tapered in front of the receiver, and I will be building in ring misalignment from the get-go. I think I will look for a piece of lightweight picatinny rail to see if I can get enough of it on the straight portion of the receiver to mount a pair of rings. It would save a great deal of effort if I can find a base that comes close to the rounded contour of the top of the Remington rifle. Alternately, I guess I could cantilever the front ring over the hump by using a somewhat thicker section of rail cut away on the bottom.

Bill


However way you do it, use a good epoxy glue on the base or bases, this will give added support to the screws, take up any discrepancy in the base contours and prevent moisture getting under the bases and potentially rusting/pitting the top of the receiver.
Over my 60 odd years of firearm use I have and still use epoxy glue on each and every base mounting I have ever done and have never had any issues with loose bases or screws. I know many are against the thought of using an epoxy glue in conjunction with screws, but IMO it is an absolute no brainer not to do so.
 
Posts: 3944 | Location: Rolleston, Christchurch, New Zealand | Registered: 03 August 2009Reply With Quote
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A Remington 760 or Browning BAR base have radiuses close.
quote:
Originally posted by Clemson:
Thanks for the suggestions. I really don't like the idea of the front base on the barrel, primarily because the barrel is tapered in front of the receiver, and I will be building in ring misalignment from the get-go. I think I will look for a piece of lightweight picatinny rail to see if I can get enough of it on the straight portion of the receiver to mount a pair of rings. It would save a great deal of effort if I can find a base that comes close to the rounded contour of the top of the Remington rifle. Alternately, I guess I could cantilever the front ring over the hump by using a somewhat thicker section of rail cut away on the bottom.

Bill
 
Posts: 3873 | Location: SC,USA | Registered: 07 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Ive seen several that did not have the front base riding on the hump, so I thought they were all mounted behind the hump?? Im thinking I would prefer that..???


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 42320 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Yes, I've seen them that way too; you can't use the recommended Weaver front base though. Use two the same height. The locking recess is right behind the hump, and it is very thin there. Still guys did it. I'd just use a one piece base and three screws. One for 742/760 will work.
 
Posts: 17443 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
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Per Bobster's suggestion, I got a base for a BAR. The radius is very close. I milled 1/16 off the base for about 2" of the front of the mount. That will clear the "hump." I can use only one of the predrilled holes, so I will need to drill and counterbore two more In the thicker parts of the receiver. There is about 1/8" of meat in those spots, so I should be OK. I'm not a big fan of the procedure, but I think I will make an epoxy pad under the base to take up the space where the radii are just barely unequal.

Bill Jacobs

Model 141 Rail 4 by jakefromclemson, on Flickr
Model 141 Rail 2 by jakefromclemson, on Flickr
Model 141 Rail 1 by jakefromclemson, on Flickr


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Posts: 339 | Location: Greenwood, SC | Registered: 06 February 2004Reply With Quote
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Perfect
 
Posts: 3944 | Location: Rolleston, Christchurch, New Zealand | Registered: 03 August 2009Reply With Quote
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Last post -- Coming up with the finished product!

Drill and counterbore the rail:

Rail Mod 1 by jakefromclemson, on Flickr


Drill and Tap the receiver (Using the rail as a template):

Rail Mod 3 by jakefromclemson, on Flickr


Mount the rail:

Rail Mod 4 by jakefromclemson, on Flickr

Rail Mod 5 by jakefromclemson, on Flickr


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Posts: 339 | Location: Greenwood, SC | Registered: 06 February 2004Reply With Quote
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I need a scope but couldn't bring myself to mount one on my .35, M14... So I bought another gun.
 
Posts: 1705 | Location: East Coast | Registered: 06 January 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by dpcd:
That could certainly be made, but I read that the owner doesn't care.


It's pointless to argue with these people. One of the oldtime gunsmiths here would refuse the job.
My 141 has a Jaeger side mount and German scope by the original owner. A drilled hole is a drilled hole regardless. I've seen this dance with a Remington 720 and an owner who wanted to chrome plate an authentic Confederate 36 caliber revolver. It's desecration that cannot be undone.
 
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Clemson, if you set the rail up on end, you can use a boring bar and match front the radius.

It just looks nicer.


Get Close and Wack'em Hard
 
Posts: 406 | Registered: 15 March 2004Reply With Quote
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I would set my adjustments in the center of the focal plane..turn the adjustments to the end then move them back half way, then everything is center to the world..Now install the bases and place the scope in the half ring and bore sight or install the top ring and shoot to sight in, if all is correct then the bore and cross hairs will be close enough that two or three clicks will complete a sight in and your scope is close to the center of it focal plane, and thats a good thing..works with centered cross hairs or with the old scopes of yesteryear with a shim here and there...


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
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