I have a 5.5" Ruger Redhawh and a Leupold 1-peice dual-dovetail base coming for it. Here is an idea I came up with for home-drilling & tapping the top-strap for the base. Does anyone think that this might work...or should I forget if and take it to a machine shop?

1. JB Weld the base to the top-strap using a clamp to hold it in position until set.

2. Usea drill that fits the screw hole snuggly to just make a light center diviot (like a center punch, but more accurate because it is guided by the base hole).

3. Then drill the top-strap with the tap drill.

4. Tap threads, install screws.

Think it will work?

I think you idea is stupid. B-Square used to make a no-drill scope base for the Redhawk--it was my first handgun 30-years ago and I had one. It worked great. I'd either get one of those or trade the Redhawk on one with Ruger bases built into it.

quote:

Originally posted by DougH9:
I have a 5.5" Ruger Redhawh and a Leupold 1-peice dual-dovetail base coming for it. Here is an idea I came up with for home-drilling & tapping the top-strap for the base. Does anyone think that this might work...or should I forget if and take it to a machine shop?

1. JB Weld the base to the top-strap using a clamp to hold it in position until set.

2. Usea drill that fits the screw hole snuggly to just make a light center diviot (like a center punch, but more accurate because it is guided by the base hole).

3. Then drill the top-strap with the tap drill.

4. Tap threads, install screws.

Think it will work?

Did you happen to see this thread? http://forums.accuratereloadin...9411043/m/8011058631

Don't forget to take pictures.

Seriously, not a good idea. It doesn't take much to throw the base and scope out of alignment. Do it correctly, and seek professional help. It might be cheaper in the long run.

Thanks for the feedback.

I do not want to use a clamp-on or weaver style base because of looks. The Leupold one with dual dovetail rings, to me, looks much better.

Another idea I have is to make a drill bushing:

.125" i.d., .210 o.d.; I can insert this into the base's upper bore and it will (should) guide my tap drill into the center.

DougH9

A stainless Ruger is not a handgun you want to try and shade tree. The steel in these revolvers are hard as woodpecker lips. It takes experience and quality cutting tools to do the job right.

James

quote:

Originally posted by DougH9:
Thanks for the feedback.

I do not want to use a clamp-on or weaver style base because of looks. The Leupold one with dual dovetail rings, to me, looks much better.

Another idea I have is to make a drill bushing:

.125" i.d., .210 o.d.; I can insert this into the base's upper bore and it will (should) guide my tap drill into the center.

Yeah and you are assuming you have the base on exactly straight. Without a purpose made jig or a milling machine you have about 999 chances in 1000 of ruining your revolver.

Hey, here's an idea: use hose clamps! Yeah, just wrap two hose clamps around the base and the top strap, tighten them up and Viola!

Seriously, unless you're willing to buy a top-quality drill press or a mill and all the other tools, why not just take it to someone who has what is needed.

When I see a gun that's been really badly bubba'd, I always wonder WTF was going through their mind when they came up with this idea? Well, now I know.

Hose clamps????..... JB weld?????..... Clamp on base?????...... Have we already forgotten how to tig weld a base to a stainless handgun????

Just go down to your local welders and pipe fitters union hall and ask then to do it. Unless you have a Nuclear power plant near by that would be my second choice.

I couldn't resist

Here's the deal Seriously if you are off on drilling those holes just a wee bit you'll be dialing in all kind of windage to correct it.
Those hole should be centered to the bore with no more then a few thousandths off center and I mean like .002" or less. the closer the better.

Take it to a smith and have them do it. it cheep insurance

Terrible idea. In the end you will be paying someone to not only install the base correctly (which you should do in the first place), but also to correct the disaster you will create with this method. Your not playing with something cheap like a cap gun, you have a quality firearm to be used in real situations. If you don't have the money to do it right, wait until you do. If you do have the money, just spend it. At my shop there is definately a "fix what you Screwed up first" charge and it can get expensive. If you don't want to use other style bases because of looks, just imagin how bad a demolished top strap will look!

Gunsmiths charge the rates they charge becuase they have a valuable skill and have taken the time to learn to do it correctly. Find a good quality gunsmith and pay his rate. In the end you will be happier and be able to say, "that was money well spent!"

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
Hose clamps????..... JB weld?????..... Clamp on base?????...... Have we already forgotten how to tig weld a base to a stainless handgun????

Just go down to your local welders and pipe fitters union hall and ask then to do it. Unless you have a Nuclear power plant near by that would be my second choice.

I couldn't resist

Here's the deal Seriously if you are off on drilling those holes just a wee bit you'll be dialing in all kind of windage to correct it.
Those hole should be centered to the bore with no more then a few thousandths off center and I mean like .002" or less. the closer the better.

Take it to a smith and have them do it. it cheep insurance

Thanks for all of the input. One reason I hesitate to use a gunsmith is that there are none in my area. There are very good machine shops, but many will no (can not) touch guns for insurance reasons.

I got the mount last night and it is made so that it is already located on the top-strap; it uses one hole (the iron sight hole, and has a recoil lug to establish fore/aft, and a center lug that centers it.

I will fab up a drill bushing and try it on a piece of scrap metal first.

(The steel in these revolvers are hard as woodpecker lips)

and that is an understatement!

IF you go the bushing route then make your bushing with 2 ODs, the smaller one is to fit inside the bottom part of the scope base hole in order to center the drill nose all the way to the bottom. You may need a carbide drill or else super-quench your HSS one. You may break a tap or 3 and you'd BETTER use new ones. You may need a new Ruger. Good luck.
Regards, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
IF you go the bushing route then make your bushing with 2 ODs, the smaller one is to fit inside the bottom part of the scope base hole in order to center the drill nose all the way to the bottom. You may need a carbide drill or else super-quench your HSS one. You may break a tap or 3 and you'd BETTER use new ones. You may need a new Ruger. Good luck.
Regards, Joe

Of course that is not the correct way to do it.

The correct way to do it is to ship it off to someone in the trade who knows what he's doing and has the correct equipment and expertise to properly align it and do it right. Place it in a box and ship it to someone. Out of state if necessary. No big deal. Dual Dovetail rings do not allow for any error in the set up.

quote:

Place it in a box and ship it to someone. Out of state if necessary. No big deal. Dual Dovetail rings do not allow for any error in the set up.

What he said.

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
IF you go the bushing route then make your bushing with 2 ODs, the smaller one is to fit inside the bottom part of the scope base hole in order to center the drill nose all the way to the bottom. You may need a carbide drill or else super-quench your HSS one. You may break a tap or 3 and you'd BETTER use new ones. You may need a new Ruger. Good luck.
Regards, Joe

Of course that is not the correct way to do it.

The correct way to do it is to ship it off to someone in the trade who knows what he's doing and has the correct equipment and expertise to properly align it and do it right. Place it in a box and ship it to someone. Out of state if necessary. No big deal. Dual Dovetail rings do not allow for any error in the set up.

I didn't say it was the CORRECT way, go back and read it again.

I said IF he chose to go that way, and then gave him some tips to try to keep him out of trouble. We all agree that it's A Bad Idea but he seems keen on it so I'm just trying to help him avoid a FUBAR.

There are fifty ways to do it and he asked for help; you suggested one way and he wants to do it another way so I'm trying to help him.

The actual measurement and marking is child's play, no smith necessary for anyone of moderate sense. The drilling & tapping is the hard spot IMO, pun intended. Too easy for the drill nose to wander or the scope base to shift or the drill to break or the tap to break. THIS is why he might be better off to send it to a pro; let the pro take the risks since he knows how to prevent a FUBAR and supposedly knows how to correct it if it happens.

My info will help him IF he chooses to go ahead and do it himself; yours, while 'correct', would be useless to him.
Regards, Joe

I'll say it again: Doing it yourself in the manner you've described is a stupid idea.

quote:

Originally posted by Toomany Tools:
I'll say it again: Doing it yourself in the manner you've described is a stupid idea.

I'll elaborate further
Doing it yourself without the proper tools and tooling is a very bad Idea. This requires a fixture or a milling machine. he has neither.

So send it off.

Has any 'shade-tree' anything actually resulted in as good a job as a professional?

DO you also do 'shade tree' dentistry?

NO offense, actually, offense meant, this is a stupid thing to do and even more stupid to ask of a bunch of guys whose company includes some of the finest gunsmiths in the industry.

Stop watching the Larry Potterfield videos and send your damn gun to a person who knows how to do the work.

quote:

Originally posted by DougH9:
Thanks for all of the input. One reason I hesitate to use a gunsmith is that there are none in my area.

Where is your area?

Boy, I bet some of you guys would be totally lost without someone to tell you how!

The guy asked for help and you told him he was stupid; and then a lot more of you told him how stupid it was; and now still A LOT MORE of you have chimed in; how about some CONstructive feedback for a change?

IMO some of your responses sound like a bunch of sheep or parrots, you really should try to have an ORIGINAL thought occasionally. Either give him a name of a good smith or give him some more suggestions on doing it himself or keep quiet. He's already had enough copycat suggestions about sending it off, he already KNOWS what he really should do so lay off already.

A good experienced craftsman can do this job with nothing more than hand tools; if you say that you can't, well, you can imagine my opinion of THAT!

The operative words in the previous sentence are 'good' and 'experienced'. He's not necessarily either one, we don't really know, so the odds are good that he'll FUBAR it but IMO that doesn't give anyone the right to call his idea stupid.

Doug, if you'll PM me I'll give you details on how you just may be able to install it 'dead nuts'. But please remember my caveat above, you gotta be GOOD!
Regards, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
NO offense, actually, offense meant, this is a stupid thing to do and even more stupid to ask of a bunch of guys whose company includes some of the finest gunsmiths in the industry.

A really fine smith knows more than one way to do a good job and the finest will willingly share their knowledge.

This kinda reminds me of one of my hunting buddies who takes his Volvo to the dealer to have his headlight bulbs & wiper blades replaced 'cause he thinks they're the only ones who can do it right. IMO he's a cake-eating idiot, none of this is exactly rocket science.
Regards, Joe

Doug,

You're also receiving even dumber advice on how to do it with hand tools; but then after all, it's not his gun that will be ruined, is it?

John, it's pretty apparent that you need to read or maybe even re-read some pertinent material.

For anyone who's interested in more thoughtful suggestions than 'send it to a pro' I strongly recommend Brownell's Gunsmith Kinks series and Guy Lautard's Machinist's Bedside Reader series, also available from Brownell's. These contain valuable info, articles and tips written by both pros and amateurs in order to help and educate fellow pros and amateurs.

Unlike some folks on this site, these books won't usually tell you to send it to a pro; they'll tell you how to do it yourself, almost always in several different but still accurate and effective ways. The books will give anyone an insight into just how simple most of these operations can be if approached from outside the 'pro' box.

Or just how complicated and problematical.

The books will also let folks know just WHAT equipment and knowledge will be actually required, and just exactly HOW complicated and tricky it really can be. That will tell them if they can do it or not and if they make a mistake then at least they had full info.

Not like some parrot saying "The sky is falling!" if you don't send it to a pro! First educate yourself and then you can make an informed decision.

And if someone tells you that there's only one way to do ANYTHING, please take it to someone else who is more informed and can think for himself. The most valuable lesson I learned from these books is the mindset that anything can be done accurately & precisely in several different ways, frequently using only minimal tooling. But you've gotta THINK!

May take 10 times as long and may cost 10 times as much to do it without the special tooling, but if someone wants to do it after they've been warned then I'll help any way I can.
Regards, Joe

Thank you Joe for your understanding of my character, and the tip on extending the guide all of the way down to the drilled surface. I do love to do things myself, and have been making gun parts with files and a hand drill for many years. I have even drilled recievers and barrels for mounts and sights before, but I wanted to take more precautions on this one.

To make sure it was aligned I was going to use a bore sighter (the little Leupold one), so that the scope stayed centered while the JB set up. Then the JB will hold the mount centered during the drilling & tapping.

But I also appreciate all of the warnings that everyone is extending; I will go at this very cautiously.

Doug,

Of course you can do it yourself. the problem with this particular job is the real possibility that you will break a tap. Hell a pro can break a tap, and we do. The difference is, the pro will have the hole centered on the quill where he can machine and remove the broken piece without causing further damage.

Beside the fact that the material is very hard, if you don't drill and tap the hole in the same plane then you increase the likelihood of something major going wrong.

It's your gun and you can do what you want. But take it from someone who makes a good part of his living from correcting "DIY" mistakes, and think carefully before proceeding on this one. Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
Boy, I bet some of you guys would be totally lost without someone to tell you how!

The guy asked for help and you told him he was stupid; and then a lot more of you told him how stupid it was; and now still A LOT MORE of you have chimed in; how about some CONstructive feedback for a change?

IMO some of your responses sound like a bunch of sheep or parrots, you really should try to have an ORIGINAL thought occasionally. Either give him a name of a good smith or give him some more suggestions on doing it himself or keep quiet. He's already had enough copycat suggestions about sending it off, he already KNOWS what he really should do so lay off already.

A good experienced craftsman can do this job with nothing more than hand tools; if you say that you can't, well, you can imagine my opinion of THAT!

The operative words in the previous sentence are 'good' and 'experienced'. He's not necessarily either one, we don't really know, so the odds are good that he'll FUBAR it but IMO that doesn't give anyone the right to call his idea stupid.

Doug, if you'll PM me I'll give you details on how you just may be able to install it 'dead nuts'. But please remember my caveat above, you gotta be GOOD!
Regards, Joe

If he ain't Nuke certified, then no way can he do it!

As far as shade tree doing stuff sure there's times when things come out perfect as a pro.

The first engine I rebuilt was done shade tree style and it was built to OEM specs and is still running today.

Now that said shade treeing is not for everyone. We have no clue of the tools or skills of the OP.

So I stand by all posts that said "ship it to a Pro" I know I did have money way back when to get stuff done right and didn't have the tools either so I made do and did do with out a lot.
I also made use of company tools and G jobs after hours.
All I can say is if you choose to do this your self try to build a fixture take your measurement carefully, use good sharp drill bits and a new tap or two. Take your time as that Cast Stainless is as hard as everyone says. It's just damn tough to cut. lots of cutting oil slow speed and a good feed rate. If you drill is squeaking as it drills guess what it's dull now.
As for centering it. You're on your own there. But you could scribe a line with calipers if needed but not my idea of a quality job.

On a gun that costs this much it would not cost that much to have someone do it for you. I'm the biggest guy on "I'm gonna do it my damn self" but sometime even I need to know when it's better to let someone else do it.

quote:

Originally posted by DougH9:
To make sure it was aligned I was going to use a bore sighter (the little Leupold one), so that the scope stayed centered while the JB set up. Then the JB will hold the mount centered during the drilling & tapping.

But I also appreciate all of the warnings that everyone is extending; I will go at this very cautiously.

Doug, I sympathize completely with your feelings about doing things yourself.

I well remember some of my fellow students at TSJC working on their projects in the dorm, projects held by a small vise attached to a very small table. One fellow rechambered his Savage 24 22RF to Hornet while held in such a contraption, with the reamer being guided by its pilot and turned by his hand. Not the way I do things but it was the weekend, he wanted to shoot it and he was impatient. Worked out OK except for a little chatter which the instructor showed him how to remove.

Of course that's a far cry from ANY sort of good practice but he was young & dumb and hadn't yet been indoctrinated that that sort of thing was 'almost impossible' without lots of big machinery and the knowledge of a 'pro'(VBG), so in the end it came out OK but he was very lucky.

Your idea about the boresighter was my first thought for mount alignment since the barrel is sometimes NOT in alignment with the frame, for a number of reasons. Make sure your scope adjustments are centered before you start.

For a double-check I'd also scribe a centerline on the top of the frame for another comparison. A pair of sharp-pointed dividers or even a child's compass will show the CL perfectly when measured & scribed from both sides.

When in doubt always go along with the boresighter/collimator, but PLEASE make sure your scope's adjustments are centered beforehand!

The little 2-step bushing is even more effective and useful if you'll fab a center-punch to fit closely in the hole. Given what you've already told us about your amateur enthusiasm, I'll bet that you'll find this little combination to be VERY nice to have in the future. I use a similar closely-fitting center-punch in my Forster jig, I assume that everone does.

One of my smithing mentors, a fellow named Joe Whitaker, showed me that trick back in the '60s. Help & encouragement from him and other unselfish men have assisted me immeasurably over the years and so I try to do the same for others.

The books I recommended are FILLED with similar tips and different approaches to various jobs that can serve as an education in itself; they won't ever replace shop class but they will add to it more than you can imagine!
Regards, Joe

My crystal ball see a bubbarized handgun on AA or GB. Wait a minute the image is starting to come through now.........R...u...g

Thanks again Joe for the help. I have often steered away from using center punches because the drill does not always start in the exact center that you wanted, or punched, and have also had problems with a drill following a center-drill perfectly (or maybe this is because of using hand-sharpened bits). This is why I thought a tight guide would be best. And yes, I did center the scope turrets already in anticipation of alignment.

The project is on temporary on hold right now as I discovered that I do not like how far back the Leupold mount mounts the scope. I may try to reverse the mount (part on the barrel and part on the strap), or maybe make (or have made) a custom mount.

quote:

Originally posted by DougH9:
I got the mount last night and it is made so that it is already located on the top-strap; it uses one hole (the iron sight hole, and has a recoil lug to establish fore/aft, and a center lug that centers it.

quote:

Originally posted by DougH9:
I may try to reverse the mount

Good luck with that.

Doug, If you do get it out of alignment you can adjust impact with Burris Signature Dual Dovetail rings. You can probably correct about 40 inches with the +20 and -20 inserts with a 3.5" ring spacing. The rings come with + and - .005,.010, and .020" bushings. Good Luck!

Who knows you may be the one giving advice on here someday. Everybody started somewhere. Sounds like you have some tinkering experience already.

God Bless, Louis

quote:

Originally posted by youngoutdoors:
Doug, If you do get it out of alignment you can adjust impact with Burris Signature Dual Dovetail rings. You can probably correct about 40 inches with the +20 and -20 inserts with a 3.5" ring spacing. The rings come with + and - .005,.010, and .020" bushings. Good Luck!

Who knows you may be the one giving advice on here someday. Everybody started somewhere. Sounds like you have some tinkering experience already.

God Bless, Louis

Finally, a CONstructive post!

Louis, you're like a breath of fresh air in this recently-stultifyng environment. Wish more nice folks like you would speak up.
Regards, Joe

I have a Ruger MkII .22LR autopistol that was not drilled and tapped. I'd like to put a base on it. Should I take it to a local 'smith and wait a year, or can one of you guys in this thread do it for me in a reasonable amount of time?

New question concerning scopeing my revolver:

I really like the way the scope sits with the mount reversed. It will just require milling a little bit on part of the base, and I will probably have a gunsmith/machine shop do the work due to the increased complexity (and you guys have me scared about this "chert-hard" steel). But in doing it this way, there will no longer be a recoil lug; the three 6-48 screwws will have to do all of the work.

Will three 6-48 screws hold a (2X Leupold) on a fire-breathing Redhawk?

If the base is bedded to the top strap with Acra-Glas or similar product, 3 screws should hold it fine. The key is to have zero movement and 100% contact is essential to that.

What John said.

I sometimes change 6-48 to 8-40 in 'iffy' cases. The 8-40 screw heads can be reduced to fit the 6-48 head recesses and the shaft IDs are only a few thou undersize anyway so the base part is easy. The frame holes, however...
Regards, Joe

Thanks guys. I contacted a bunch of shops locally and found one willing to do the job; I will drop it off on Weds. If it all works out I will post a picture next weekend.