Well do I have a bitch for Rem.. I own at least Five Remington rifles. My first purchase of my first NEW Remington was in 1997. It is a 7mm Remington Mag. I could never hit any thing with it, and figured it to be me.. No big, got more rifles to shoot that I can hit things with.. Any way my son started caring it. He even shot it, but forgot to clean it. This is when I notice the crown.. I have owned this rifle for seven years and never saw, (never looked) at the crown. At first I thought my eyes where messing with me. The crown is factory target style crown is machined off center. You can see that there is a chamfer on one side and not on the other. This tells me the rifle will never be same point of impact at any given range. Well unless I get a 100yard deer..
I sent it to Remington. So far they tell me my stock has been altered, and my trigger was adjusted. So I ask, what about my original complaint. The crown.... Oh by the way they want to charge me Real money for the stock and new trigger....
So this morning I get the word about the crown...
The floor manager goes and checks for himself.
They cannot see any thing wrong.
I know I have had this rifle for a while, but the I can not see how I could move the crown sitting in the corner like that.....
Remington just lost a customer. Their repair center is blind.... I wish I had a good camera to take a picture and post it. I declined all repairs, and it will be sent back today.
Oh, another note they did tell me that it shoots .5 groups at 100yard with 175grn Remington ammunition.
Who the hell uses that heavy of projectiles on a California deer.... Give me a break.
I had a similar experience this weekend. I pulled the barrel from a Rem 700 .30-06 and set it up on my lathe between centers to just spin the barrel and sand it. I had filled the sight holes and draw filed it. Now I was going to sand it. It was amazing how off center the barrel was. The crown was actually ok it was the that the bore was not concentric. I couldn't believe the wobble.
Posts: 4863 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 07 February 2002
I was so POed that I left a voice mail on my reps phone asking for a letter from the floor manager and the gunsmith doing the work to be sent back with the rifle stating the crown was not off, or any other problem. Funny how a new stock fixes machining error...
Brownells sells a hand powered crown tool. It has different sized pilots to fit the bore, then the new crown is cut in relation to the bore and not the outside of the barrel. I have used it on a couple of 06's and a 270 with good results.
Posts: 2924 | Location: Arkansas | Registered: 23 December 2002
Mauserkid, If this rifle shoots 1/2 in. groups at 100 yards just what is your bitch? There certainly is nothing wrong with the crown whether it appears to the eye to be off-center or not. Could it be you've developed a flinch from your eargespchlittenloudenboomer? And I'm not trying to be a smart ass here. The first rifle I ever bought was a 7mm Magnum when I was a 120 lb. kid and it damn near ruined me. If my son ever took a liking to a 7 mag I would take a board to him. I can't think of a faster way to ruin a kid. Jim
Posts: 730 | Location: Prescott, AZ | Registered: 07 February 2001
Oh, another note they did tell me that it shoots .5 groups at 100yard with 175grn Remington ammunition. Who the hell uses that heavy of projectiles on a California deer.... Give me a break.
I presume you reload some, as most posters here do. I would look at this accuracy as a good sign that the rifle has good accuracy potential, and that just some load development with your favorite bullet is all that is required.
Sometimes great accuracy can appear under the strangest circumstances. Besides, if you have a messed up crown, and the rifle still shoots well, you can say that your rifle is eccentric instead of a POS.
I have to appoligize, I have been calling the crown a target style. I should have been calling it a Recessed field crown?
Recessed field crown Concentrically-perfect, the recessed field crown assures critical accuracy as the bullet leaves the barrel. By recessing the crown, we provide additional protection from possible damage which could result in deteriorated accuracy.
You guys are all correct; the rifle has a good potential of being a shooter.
I only wanted the crown inspected, not be told I had to buy a new stock if I wanted the rifle to shoot correctly. I only did what Remington offered by sending in the rifle. I even sent copies of the emails with the rifle.
When it gets back I will start from scratch. Or stick with one of the rifles I built. That I know actually shoots straight.
Oh Jim, my boy is 6-3, and weighs I bet 200lbs. or so. I would think the board might be a bit too much. The felt recoil of a Big bad seven is not much more than a good ole 30-06 with the same SD bullets�. Now I cant argue about noise, especially a 24inch barrel like I have.
Like I said before guys, I was venting. I just felt like Remington was going to step up to the plate for me.
Maybe I should have used the word DISAPOINTED instead of Bitching.
When you get it back it will be interestin to see if it still has the same barrel. I returned a Desert Eagle barrel several years ago because it was bulging 44 brass so badly. They said that there was nothing wrong with the barrel that a good cleaning didn't cure and declined to charge me for the cleaning. At the time I was borderline to becoming a gunsmith. I did NOT get back the same barrel that I sent away. Maybe a liability thing,admit no wrong but fix the problem? derf
Posts: 3450 | Location: Aldergrove,BC,Canada | Registered: 22 February 2003
Mauser, is it just the crown that is off-center, or is it the whole bore? If just the crown, any good gunsmith can remove a small amount from the muzzle & recrown it for you. That won't cost an arm and a leg!
If the bore is off-center, you can just bet it never fired a 0.5" group @ 100 yards with ANY KIND of ammo. In such a case, the only solution is a new barrel!
Mauserkid, Holy Moly 6'3" 200 lbs? I would imagine if you took a board to him he would take it from you and whup you with it! And that rifle I was talking about only weighed about 6 1/2 lbs. Way to light for a 7 mag. I hope it works out for you and it turns out to be a shooter. At any rate don't whup the kid. He's to big. Jim
Posts: 730 | Location: Prescott, AZ | Registered: 07 February 2001
Please enlighten me; just what the hell does an off-center bore have to do with accuracy? The majority, 99.99% of the barrels I crown have a bore out of concentricity to the O.D. by some amount. If the crown is concentric and/or square with the bore, it should be OK. There are those that will argue that also, but what the hell.
Posts: 5523 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 10 July 2002
Best I can see is that the bore, at the end of the barrel is about .010 off center. The crown is about .030-.040 off center. I never really made an effort to measure the differences, if you took a moment to look, you could see that there are different centers to the rings of the crown in relation to the bore center. Heck, it took me almost seven years to notice it. After the first experience, I just never got around to working with it.
This is a machined target crown. That would mean the individual doing the work did not chuck the barrel straight the day he did the crown, or the barrel was never straight to begin with. Barrel would be wobbling in the lathe, and should have been seen then.
Maybe they do not use a lathe to do target crowns? Wonder if there is a fixture Rem uses to guide the barrel into a spinning cuter that installs the crown.
Quote: Please enlighten me; just what the hell does an off-center bore have to do with accuracy? The majority, 99.99% of the barrels I crown have a bore out of concentricity to the O.D. by some amount. If the crown is concentric and/or square with the bore, it should be OK. There are those that will argue that also, but what the hell.
Jim,
Just for the record my comment was merely an observation. I agree that most if not all bores are eccentric to the OD somewhere along their length. I was just amazed at how eccentirc this particular barrel was. The crown was actually concentic to the the od at the muzzle however, about eight inches behind that their was considerable runout.
I agree, that since virtually all bores are off center to one degree or another you'd be hard pressed to make the statement that an off center bore never shot a .5" group.
Posts: 4863 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 07 February 2002
I have seen a couple of rifle (milsurp mausers) that had the barrels shortened and then were recrowned with a carriage bolt and jewelers rouge that shot like a house on fire. DO NOT SEND Remington anything except what you want worked on. When I sent a rifle back to them for a re-barrel, I kept the trigger, stock, everything except the barreled action.
Posts: 2037 | Location: frametown west virginia usa | Registered: 14 October 2001
I have a model 700 that the crown chamfer to the bore is visibly missing on one side and very apparent on the opposite side like it was turned off center from the bore. Maybe its caused by the barrel end being cut at an angle or the crown recess was cut deeper on one side than the other because it seems square to the bore and shoots as good or better than any other model 700 I have.
Posts: 372 | Location: Alberta | Registered: 13 December 2001
Mauserkid, I would say if you have a rifle that shoots 1/2 inch groups at a hundred yards that you have little if anything to bitch about. 99% of the off-the-shelf rifles built will not shoot that. And, what's this about....
"...Best I can see is that the bore, at the end of the barrel is about .010 off center. The crown is about .030-.040 off center. I never really made an effort to measure the differences...."?
Do you have a micrometer in your eye? Are you a machinist with 20 years experience looking for tiny differences? This thread smacks of a weak attempt at Remington bashing.
MKane160 aka BigDogMK
Posts: 488 | Location: TN | Registered: 03 January 2004
If it was taken that way, I am sorry. I have always liked the Remington products; I feel they avoided the reason I sent the rifle in.
I have to say that it is good to know that I am not the only one out there with the same crown.
I will repair the crown to my standards, and retest the rifle for accuracy my self. I will try to do a before, and after shoot. I will also post my findings of the shoot.
So far the worst I have seen was a bore .0032 off center. The rifle shot like a housafire!!! It was a 308 PSS! Guy wanted it shortened and recrowned. He got it! GHD
Posts: 2495 | Location: SW. VA | Registered: 29 July 2002
Mauserkid, I didn't think you were Remington bashing but you are worrying about something that is really unimportant. I do lots of barrels that when they are indicated in and spinning in the lathe if you look at the outside of the barrel it appears to be wobbling and it is. If you look down the bore it will be spinning with no perceptable movement. When Remington cuts a crown it is done automatically on a machine and it is not necessarily eyeballed by the operator. The barrel is located by the machine, the crowning tool moves a specified amount and the barrel is done. It drops into the bin and moves on to the next step. The point is that in a production the crowning tool moves so far and the barrel is done. When I or Kobe or any number of other people here cut a crown it is cut and then re-cut if need be to clean it up and make it look right. If your crown was cut .010 off of concentric with the bore you wouldn't be able to hit paper at 100 yards much less be capable of 1/2 moa at 100yards. Jim
Posts: 730 | Location: Prescott, AZ | Registered: 07 February 2001
The bottom line is: If it shoots ok don't mess with it. There's a lot of guys, and rifle manufacturers, who are too lazy or don't have the time to correctly set up a barrel to crown it correctly. Some simply chuck it up in a 3-jaw or run it in a steady and then crown. If careful, done like that, a 90deg crown will be perpendicular to the bore (although not concentric)and will shoot fine. Like I said, leave it or send it to me and I will re-do it for you.
Jim
Posts: 5523 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 10 July 2002
