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Life is more exitin' when yer stickin' suppositories inta a wildcats behind!
[This message has been edited by wildcat junkie (edited 01-09-2002).]
[This message has been edited by wildcat junkie (edited 01-09-2002).]
quote:
Originally posted by m1carbine:
The action I worked on that was made in 44 was of styer production. I was helping a budy build a scout rifle from a commy captured 98k. We repaced the barrel with another german barrel that we shortend to 18 inchs. We also drilled and taped it for an apiture rear sight. The reciver had a very hard case but was soft on the inside just like thery are suposes to be.
Ray
That's why they tend to "swell up" instead of BLOW UP when things go wrong!
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Life is more exitin' when yer stickin' suppositories inta a wildcats behind!
[This message has been edited by wildcat junkie (edited 01-10-2002).]
quote:
Originally posted by wildcat junkie:
jag! a side push pull trigger safety on a M98! GAG PUKE
A 3 pos M70 type is the only way to go
WC -- First off, I was merely offering other options and stating a fact, there is moreoptions out there out there.
I too, prefer m70 safties, Scout may not.
Hope the puke taste goes away soon!
I never SAID that a midway barrel would out shoot "a sound, German made, properly chambered military barrel". Bla, bla bla... Even a "cheap" midway barrel properly broke in the hands of a real shooter, would out shoot it hands down.
And this wildcat thing?? I would expect more from you, considering your screenname.
8mm-06imp is a pretty common WC, considering all of the old mausers out there. Again there are others out there...
450/358 Ackley
35 Ackley Mag.
458x2 american
etc..
Anyway, again I say I love the cal, just look around though, lots of choices..
JAG
(latest 458 Lott)
quote:
Originally posted by JAG:
WC -- First off, I was merely offering other options and stating a fact, there is moreoptions out there out there.
I too, prefer m70 safties, Scout may not.
Hope the puke taste goes away soon!I never SAID that a midway barrel would out shoot "a sound, German made, properly chambered military barrel". Bla, bla bla... Even a "cheap" midway barrel properly broke in the hands of a real shooter, would out shoot it hands down.
And this wildcat thing?? I would expect more from you, considering your screenname.
8mm-06imp is a pretty common WC, considering all of the old mausers out there. Again there are others out there...
450/358 Ackley
35 Ackley Mag.
458x2 american
etc..
Anyway, again I say I love the cal, just look around though, lots of choices..JAG
(latest 458 Lott)
jag: Gee, sorry I got your shorts in a knot. I thought the "smilies" might clue you in that some of this was meant to be taken as some "good natured" ribbing! As for all of those "exotic" wildcats you referenced, I don't claim to be an expert, just willing to share what I have learned in my so far limited ( but somewhat successful)experience, and I tried to make that clear in one of my posts. I think the 8mm-06 Imp. is plenty wild for a newcomer to wildcatting. As for the Midway barrel Bla, bla bla... I doubt if a "sporter" weight Adams and Bennet barrel would out shoot the military barrel as there are many respondents to this thread that have experienced great results with their "military" barrels once they started reloading and quit shooting the anemic crap that the American ammo makers are putting out. If $100 barrel would consistently shoot 1/2" groups every time, the premium barrel makers would be out of business. I'm not saying the Midway barrels are bad barrels, just that one should give a sound military barrel a shot before replacing it! If I offended you, I apologize, but I do think you need to LIGHTEN UP a little!
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Life is more exitin' when yer stickin' suppositories inta a wildcats behind!
Aloha
JAG
Education is the only firearm law that should exist on the books.
We would save a lot of trees if they would stop adding shi%. I think they just do it to say they did something when they were there. Or? Is there something else?
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quote:
Originally posted by scout:
Jag, I had a big defense established, but all I am going to say, is those particular calibers are not Wal-Mart products. Oh, and K-mart no longer exists.
Education is the only firearm law that should exist on the books.
We would save a lot of trees if they would stop adding shi%. I think they just do it to say they did something when they were there. Or? Is there something else?
Scout, What the hell are you talking about? Do you reload?
Or do you by your ammo @ Walmart??
Since k-mart no longer exists.
Good luck with your mauser.
A bit of advise; Find old military 06 to use as your 8mm-06 cases. Use ones that the headstamps do not reflect 30-06. for obvious reasons.
JAG
SCOUT>>
The first rule of firearm safety is common sense.
There are more safety options than a Beuhler or a 3 position Model 70 type and those will cost you $150 and installation will set you back $75 or so. The 2 position, either PME or Chapman uses the original bolt shroud and will be considerably cheaper. There was a lot of thought that went into all of the parts of a 98 and the bolt shroud is one of them. I much prefer that over the model 70 types. I have installed them and the 2 positions and prefer the latter. Total cost on a 2 position will be in the $75 range, it is a sideswing like the 3 position.
It would not surprise me at all to see the Midway barrels outshoot the old Military barrels. I have not used them but have heard nothing but good reports about them. I don't know how long they will last and that is often more of a telling point with some products. They are all done with CNC and they don't cost much but those military ones didnt cost much either. The accuracy will be more in the care in installation and the final chamgering. You will not find a wildcat chamber at Midway though and am not even sure if they have 8mm barrels.
If it was me, I would not fiddle with the military barrel.
One more thing, don't think a barrel has to be replaced if it does not shoot a 1" group, that is so much crap. It is nice to have 1/2" or 1" accuracy but for most hunting situations you can do witha lot less. Consider one thing relative to this. On the bench a rifle shoots 1", off the bench standing the shooter shoots probably a 3 or 4" group. That doesnt mean it is 3 or 4 times the bench accuracy. It means his holding and shooting error is 2 or 3 inches added to the 1 inch from the bench. A 1 1/2" bench shooting rifle will then be shooting 3 1/2 or 4 1/2 versus 3 or 4. If you think you can shoot 1" groups using your day pack as a rest you are doing better than the rest of us. Just a point to get realistic about the accuracy needed.
Chic Worthing
Customstox/jag- My opinion on safeties: I would much rather have one that blocks the striker, be it Bueler, 2-pos or 3-pos. To switch to one that blocks the trigger mechanism would seem like a step backwards. Perhaps the reason I am waving the flag for the "military" barrels is the fact that there aren't any 8mm "bargain" barrels. These "bargain" barrels have to be chambered also, so the price isn't as cheap as it appears. I really like the 8MM bore, (as did P.O. Ackley) It is a shame that it has been neglected on this side of the pond. Bullet selection has improved, and as I've mentioned the weight range spans from 125grs to 250grs. That is a larger choice than the 7mm or the .338, and about the same as the .308 offerings. Granted, there are more choice in brands with the others but I think the bullet choice flap is not really valid anymore. Now, everybody play nice ------------------
Life is more exitin' when yer stickin' suppositories inta a wildcats behind!
[This message has been edited by wildcat junkie (edited 01-10-2002).]
Good shooting.
You have a good point about the mil brass, but not all of it is as you describe.
Anyway, good thread, lots of info....
Happy shooting all...
JAG
No barrel to buy, If it�s a good shooter.
We would be doing a rechamber any way.
Now it is time to address the recoil issues at hand.
What are we going to compare that one with?
And what are we going to tame that monster with?
Hmmmm..
SCOUT>>
quote:
Chic, I fired 5 consecutive 3 shot groups at 200yds, off my daypack with a M98 in 30-06, the largest group was .7", I had 2 whitness's, they were amazed.
So am I
quote:
Originally posted by scout:
Looks like the 8mm-06 Ackley improved version has won here.No barrel to buy, If it�s a good shooter.
We would be doing a rechamber any way.
Now it is time to address the recoil issues at hand.What are we going to compare that one with?
And what are we going to tame that monster with?
Hmmmm..
SCOUT>>
Comparing recoil of a given rifle is a tricky thing as stock geometry has a lot (everything actually) to do with how that recoil is transmitted to the shoulder. (or checkbone in a stock with a lot of drop. My 8mm-06 Imp doesn't seem to recoil any more than my 7mm-08 M700 Mountain Rifle with hot loads, but we are talking about 1/2# difference in rifle weight, and some subtle differences in stock geometry plus the 8mm-06 Imp is fitted with a 1" Pachmeyer "Decelerator" pad, an excellent recoil dampener. I would compare the 8mm-06 Imp with a 30-06 that is using similar or perhaps slightly lighter bullet weights. Pay attention to the STOCK GEOMETRY! You want a comb that has very little drop @ the heel compared to the comb, perhaps less drop @ the heel. This will keep the rifle from driving the comb into your cheek with recoil. A little cast off helps to direct the recoil away from the face also. It,s all a matter of applied physics. The weight of the projectile, muzzle blast, the weight of the rifle etc. will determine "free recoil". The stock geometry, recoil pad etc. will determine how that recoil is transmitted to the body.
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Life is more exitin' when yer stickin' suppositories inta a wildcats behind!
[This message has been edited by wildcat junkie (edited 01-12-2002).]
quote:
Originally posted by wildcat junkie:
Comparing recoil of a given rifle is a tricky thing as stock geometry has a lot (everything actually) to do with how that recoil is transmitted to the shoulder. (or checkbone in a stock with a lot of drop) My 8mm-06 Imp doesn't seem to recoil any more than my 7mm-08 M700 Mountain Rifle with hot loads, but we are talking about 1/2# difference in rifle weight, and some subtle differences in stock geometry plus the 8mm-06 Imp is fitted with a 1" Pachmeyer "Decelerator" pad, an excellent recoil dampener. I would compare the 8mm-06 Imp with a 30-06 that is using similar or perhaps slightly lighter bullet weights. Pay attention to the STOCK GEOMETRY! You want a comb that has very little drop @ the heel compared to the comb, perhaps less drop @ the heel. This will keep the rifle from driving the comb into your cheek with recoil. A little cast off helps to direct the recoil away from the face also. It,s all a matter of applied physics. The weight of the projectile, muzzle blast, the weight of the rifle etc. will determine "free recoil". The stock geometry, recoil pad etc. will determine how that recoil is transmitted to the body.
Carcano
quote:
Originally posted by carcano91:
One word from the homeland of the 8 x 57 M/88: if you wish to rechamber your 8x57 (no objective need visible, unless your throat is badly eroded), feel free to play with it :-), but DON'T (*D*O* *N*O*T*) choose the 8mm-06, that would just be plain unreasonable.
Use a factory cartridge like the 8 x 60 S or 8 x 64 S (the latter one being more potent and having also cheap Sellier & Bellot ammo besides the ultraexpensive "Original Brenneke" available).Carcano
THESE CATRIDGES MAY SEEM PRACTICAL TO YOU AS YOU LIVE IN GERMANY. ONE WOULD BE HARD PRESSED TO FIND ANY OF THOSE CHAMBERINGS IN THE AVERAGE (oops caps lock on, sorry) American "Gun Shop". Any well stocked American "Gun Shop" would have 30-06 brass in stock, or available in 2 or 3 days from any distributor. As this is after all a "Reloading" forum, I would think the 8mm-06 would be a very viable option for an American (reloading) shooter.
Again this is not meant to be critical, just wanted to point something out that may not be obvious to you as you are not familiar with American shooting customs. By the way, the 8mm-06 is the balistic twin to the 8X64s when loaded to the same pressure.
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Life is more exitin' when yer stickin' suppositories inta a wildcats behind!
[This message has been edited by wildcat junkie (edited 01-28-2002).]
quote:
Originally posted by wildcat junkie:
THESE CATRIDGES MAY SEEM PRACTICAL TO YOU AS YOU LIVE IN GERMANY. ONE WOULD BE HARD PRESSED TO FIND ANY OF THOSE CHAMBERINGS IN THE AVERAGE
But you are mistaking the argument. It is a wildcat anyhow, the 8mm-06. So, rather use a cartridge that at least *has* a second option of available factory brass (besides reforming existing cases) than one wildcat than is _purely and entirely_ a case-forming affair.
Carcano
Scout�.
quote:
Originally posted by dan belisle:
I have to side with WJ on this one.
Please kindly see my posting immediately preceding yours for a demonstration which your argument as such is flawed (performance-wise, the 8mm-06 is as good as the 8 x 64 S and neither is much superior to the 8 x 57 IS).
If you have the choice between a cartridge that is a pure wildcat only, and one that can both be re-formed from several other brass if you like tinkering, *and* can be had as a factory cartridge too, the latter one is always the more sensible option if the performance is about equal - as it is here.
Sincerely,
Carcano
[This message has been edited by carcano91 (edited 01-28-2002).]
I am allowed to sat this as I am of German decent 
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Life is more exitin' when yer stickin' suppositories inta a wildcats behind!
quote:
Originally posted by wildcat junkie:
It has become somewhat difficult in recent years to even find 8x57 ammo in American gun shops, and even when one does find any, it is the anemic SHIT that corporate (lawyer run) America finds fit to pawn off on the American public. These loadings propel a 170gr (round nose at that) bullet in the 2300fps range.
Quite true. However, you were speaking about reloaded cartridges in the first places, so the weakly loaded amphibious US "8mm mauser" factory cartridges are not an issue. I admit that the 8x60 and 8x64 do offer a slightly flatter trajectory - as does the 8mm-06 - but for real long shots, one will either choose a 8 x 68 S, a 8mm Remington Magnum or one of the more common .300 and .375 cartridges.
quote:
So, we are right back to a strictly reloading proposition, with a cartridge that does not have brass redily available no less. (in the United States) Where is the advantage to that?
The advantage is that you can choose whether you reform existing brass or use new factory cases. You can even use factory ammo. You do not have either choice with a 8mm-06.
quote:
All that is required to "form" 8mm-06 brass is one pass through the sizing die and viola, 8mm-06 brass, not a difficult operation PERIOD!
All that is required to make 8x60 or 8x64 ammo, if one does not want to use factory cases (all mail-orderable conveniently without any difficulty), is to use a plethora of existing and common once-fired cases and run them through a sizing die.
One does not even need to trim the case for the 8x64. Apart from the 7x64, .270 and .280 as bases, the .30-06 and the .35 Whelen are the common basic bases for making a perfectly serviceable 8x64.
Sincerely,
Carcano
[This message has been edited by carcano91 (edited 01-29-2002).]
But, the most inportant thing is that over here 8x64 is just as much of a wildcat as 8mm-06. If you have to make it, you have to make it. Over here we don't have all of the euro 8mm's avalible.
Ray
quote:
Originally posted by m1carbine:
one thing to remember is that there is no more effert in making 8mm-06 then in reloading factory 8x64 cases. All it takes to make 8mm-06 is to run an 06 case into a full length sizing die. Another thing to remember is that if there are no resonable 8x64 cases commercially available over here,
I am afraid I have some difficulty understanding your reasoning; or it is just incorrect:
http://www.sb-usa.com/distrib.html
quote:
so there is no difference between making 8x64 then making 8mm-06.
The difference is that in both instances you can easily convert existing brass, but in case of the 8x64, you have the additional option of using two different loads of accessible Sellier & Bellot factory ammo, which the 8mm-06 does not offer. And at a price (15 to 20 bucks per box of twenty) which is not higher than for many domestic cartridges.
Carcano
[This message has been edited by carcano91 (edited 01-29-2002).]
All you get is hot, dirty, sweaty and smelly.
Eventually you realize that the pig enjoys it!
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Life is more exitin' when yer stickin' suppositories inta a wildcats behind!
[This message has been edited by wildcat junkie (edited 01-29-2002).]
Carcano,
You still have to remember that even though we can get the ammo it is still not realy practical. You have to remember that just because a company make a particular round it dosen't mean that is is easy to find a distributer for it. Also, most of us or doing this hobbie on a limited amount of capital. Having to mail order ammo adds to the cost of it. And most people are going to reload anyway so there is no advatage to use in rechambering to 9x64. I have look at several reloading equipment manufatures web site and can't find a set of dies for 8x64.
Theres just is no advatage for us americans to chamber for the round.
Ray
[This message has been edited by m1carbine (edited 01-29-2002).]
[This message has been edited by m1carbine (edited 01-29-2002).]
quote:
Originally posted by m1carbine:
Hey Wildcat junky,
I'm part Germen. Hense my good tast in guns.[This message has been edited by m1carbine (edited 01-29-2002).]
m1carbine: I too am of German heritage, hence I speak from personal experience on the "pig wraslin" subject
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Life is more exitin' when yer stickin' suppositories inta a wildcats behind!
[This message has been edited by wildcat junkie (edited 01-29-2002).]
In a sense, that is what has happened here in the United States.
The Mauser actions we are using will only accept a 30-06-length cartridge. Hence, no 8x68s or 8mm mag.
Scout.
I to have some German heritage on my mother�s side.
[This message has been edited by scout (edited 01-29-2002).]
quote:
Originally posted by auto:
My Mauser still has the steps in the barrel.
I wish mine still did. It soon will have them.
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Life is more exitin' when yer stickin' suppositories inta a wildcats behind!