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Picked up a goodie box with a bunch of stuff in it including a like new barrel made by Shultz and Larson in 7mm cal that has 1 in 14 " stamped on the barrel. It is a heavy sporter weight 27 inch barrel. That seems like a pretty slow twist. Any thoughts on what the heaviest bullet that barrel might stabilize ?? | ||
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Stabilization is more of function of length and velocity than of weight. So it is going to depend on chambering and bullet configuration. I will run so preliminary calcs and get back to you Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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For cup and core construction: any kinda spitzer you looking at around 120 grains with a muzzle velocity at or above 2400 fps if you switch to roundnose cup and core 154 grn same velocity thresholds Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I think that barrel was intended for a 7x61 Sharpe and Hart rifle. Schultz and Larson chambered rifles for it in the 1950's, I'm just going on memory here about stuff I remember reading. Most 7mm/.284 barrels are a 9, 9.5 or 10 twist with the 9 being most popular but that is for shooting bullets up to 175 grains. Mike, posting above, is spot on, if you build a rifle to shoot Spitzer 120's or 130's you should be happy. 7BR (Bench Rest), 7mm-08, 7x57 would all be fun but you can even go for the large capacity cases as speed takes up some slack in slow twists. | |||
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The M54 and M60 model Schultz and Larsen rifles chambered in 7x61 S&H had 1:12 twists and wouldn't stabilise 175gr cup and cores very well. They would stabilise 160gr projectiles fine, the only projectile weight used by Norma in their factory ammo until later years where they loaded 154gr Hornady and their own Norma 150gr projectiles. Norma was the only manufacturer of 7x61 ammunition. The later M65 and M68 had 1:10 twists to stabilise 175gr projectiles that handloaders may use. Not sure what your 1:14 twist barrel was intended for but certainly not for the 7x61 cartridge. | |||
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Thanks for that info. Looks like nothing over about 120 grs? | |||
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Assuming the barrel hasn't been chambered, which chambering are you considering snowman? This barrel seems to have been intended for a long range magnum caliber shooting very light bullets. Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can. | |||
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Haven't really decided if I will use this barrel or not. Something simple like a 7mm Rem might work. Did you have an idea ? | |||
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Not really. Just (a .284 fan)never saw a 7 in that slow twist. Seems like the max. So, mono-metal 100's might be best if you can find some, yet hard to know what it's going to like. Just an observer. Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can. | |||
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1:14 does sound a bit slow as I seem to recall 160-grain Norma bullets mentioned in regard to the 7x61 S&H. | |||
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Back in the day, 1-14 was a popular twist bench rest shooters used with the .308 and the 168 gr. Sierra Match King. If I recall correctly, Brunon Brunowski used a 1-14 .308 barrel to win a national championship around 1963-64. Schultz and Larsen also offered a very heavy solid bottom single shot action designed for free rifle and bench rest shooting. I have a S & L free rifle built around just such an action. | |||
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Thanks for the info guys. If anyone has any ideas what this barrel might work for please chime in . | |||
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While the 1:14 twist might be limited to 120gr or less in 7mm calibre, I couldn't see any point in having this in a magnum cartridge which are generally designed for and excel with heavier, ballistically efficient bullets at high velocity in a given calibre e.g. 160gr boat-tails in 7mm. From my experience with three S&L rifles in 7x61 the barrels are beautifully polished in the bore and shoot fast. Many struggle to get 3000fps in the 7mm Rem Mag with a 150gr bullet yet it was no hard task to get 3000fps+ with a 160gr in the smaller 7x61 S&H case using less powder than any of the 7mm magnum cartridges. I think the quality of the barrel had a lot to do with the great performance of the 7x61 cartridge in a S&L rifle. | |||
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Thanks eagle77. I think I was wrong when I assumed it was intended for a mag caliber. Still a great prospect for flat shooter at long range. Ballistic coefficients are not bad at all for the lighter mono-metal .284's. Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can. | |||
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It wouldn't normally be much of a long range round shooting light bullets at long range, quite the opposite is true, a light fast bullet loses velocity fast..I can't think of a reason for a 1x14 twist in any .284 caliber, sounds partly fact but mostly fiction..I would suggest a 1x8.5 or no more than 1x10. Mine are all 1x9 and that's about perfect for 120 gr. to 175 gr. bullets in most .284s..I've found it best in the 284 win. 7x57, 7 mag., don't know about the others. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Depends on the animal. When I said long range, I was thinking 350 yards on sheep and 110's. Why not just buy another barrel with a more reasonable twist like 1/8.66" for 175's and 1/10" for 150 grainers in stead of this one just because it was cheap? Just sell this one for what you can get on e---. Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can. | |||
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I had a S&L 7X61 rifle with 1-12" twist rate. I could shoot 160 grain bullets in it, but it would never stabilize 175 grainers. I re-barreled it to 7mm RM a=with a 1-10 twist barrel by Bill Hobaugh. Still has problems with 175 grainers. | |||
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We have a 7mm 1 in 14" blank in the rack. I painted it red and wrote all over it, put in with short and odd blanks. I do not want to be the one to tell a customer "Here's your 7 mag, it will shoot 120's great." | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by custombolt: Depends on the animal. When I said long range, I was thinking 350 yards on sheep and 110's. Why not just buy another barrel with a more reasonable twist like 1/8.66" for 175's and 1/10" for 150 grainers in stead of this one just because it was cheap? I didn't buy the barrel because it was cheap. I bought the box of stuff for the other things in the box, some dies and a nice floorplate. Just trying to figure out if the barrel is of any use to me. Almost too heavy for a sporter for me so ??? | |||
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Sounds perfect for a 7x33 Sako, which uses a 78 grain RN bullet. In reality, I suspect that any cup and core up to 140-150 grains would shoot just fine from this barrel if boosted to typical "magnum" velocities. The entire rifle-shooting world has become much too enamored with "twist" in recent years, blaming everything from bad weather to stock market declines on "inadequate twist". | |||
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