I am trying to decide on a stainless barrel for a 300 WM. I not only want something that will shoot, but I want something that will clean up well. Should a guy go with a Hart, Pac-Nor, or maybe Lilja?

Chuck

All of them are excellent reputations as mfrs of superb barrels.....I'd pick Lilja but that's me....
You'd be far better off trying to select the smith that will do the work.....That's where the accuracy comes in!!!

Buying the very best barrel is no guarantee of accuracy!!

I would pick Lilja over the other two, with Hart as my second choice. While the single most accurate barrel I have yet owned was a Hart .338 which shot Failsafes and Partitions into .25-35" groups at 100, follwed by an SGW in .280 Rem. that did .5" at 100 and at 200, regularly; I think that Lilja ia about the best right now and they are close enough to you to drive down and deal with them "vis-a-vis".

I'm also quite impressed with the barrels from Bevan King that I have seen and you might talk to Bill about those. I would love to have a Kreiger and a Lothar Walther, but, it evidently takes months to get one and they are dicey about shipping into Canada.

I have heard of a guy here in B.C.that imports both Kreiger and Lilja, I will check with my buddy and find out the straight goods on this and let you know.

Chuck,
I have used all and my first choice would always be Hart. I've used more of them than the others but have never been disappointed. Many have had great luck with Pac-Nor. Their response to the occasional short lived barrel has been an "Oh well" though which kind of bugs me.
I have only installed about 5 Lilgas. 4 were great one was mediocre. By the way the mediocre would shoot no better than about.375moa. and was an anomaly.
There are so many good barrels available now the only real reason to have one brand over another is to say the barrel is from -insert name here. Regards, Bill.

Bill,

How would you compare Kreiger cut rifling barrels to the others.

Mike

quote:

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Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:
I am trying to decide on a stainless barrel for a 300 WM. I not only want something that will shoot, but I want something that will clean up well. Should a guy go with a Hart, Pac-Nor, or maybe Lilja?

Chuck

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Pac-nor are a good bit cheaper (in standard match grade), but I'd choose the Hart if the extra $ wasn't an issue. Hart may have a longer lead time...

I second what Vapodog said about the gunsmith being the most important ingredient in the equation.
I've been buying Hart barrels since the late 60's and never had one that wouldn't shoot. Personally, I'll continue to buy their barrels out of loyalty, knowing that they'll shoot if I get the right smith to build the rifle.
But, I do know that there are some very fine barrel makers out there today. Shilen, Kreiger, Borders, Lilja, Schneider, and a guy up in BC who does great work. I would not have any problem buying one of these guys' barrels and, with the right smith, come out with a superb rifle. I just sold a rifle with a Shilen barrel on it that was as accurate as a similar rifle I have with a Hart barrel. Shilen barrels win lots of benchrest matches. Haven't seen too many Pac Nor barrels winning matches.
The folks up at Hart have treated me very well over the years, so I'll keep buying their barrels. I know they'll shoot with the best of them given a good smith building the rifle.
Don

Chuck,

I'm a fan of Hart barrels. I have them on two different .300 Win. Mag. rifles, and one of my long-time hunting partners has one on his custom .300 Win. Mag. as well. All are 24" long, #3 contour, 1 in 10" twist, and all produce 1/2" groups @100 yds. with premium 180 gr. bullets, and 3100 fps. or better MV. All of them clean up very easily as well, but they were all broken-in very carefully and have been cleaned very carefully from the time they were new to the present. Extremely consistent barrels of superb quality.

I don't think you can do any better......

AD

DMB, not sure what kind of matches your watching, but Pac-Nor has done it's share of winning in NRA highower competition in the last several years. How about the presidents match at Perry, the Porter cup which is a 1000 yard service rifle match, several state championships that I am aware of, and at least one national record that I know of. I know BR shooters have not been using a lot of them recently for whatever reason, but the last couple hundred that I have put on I have been very happy with.

There are lots of good barrel makers out there, but finding one that knows how to run a business and treat his customers is sometimes hard to do. Pac-Nor and Krieger do this better than any other barrel maker I have used, and that is most of them.

Kutenay, you ain't missing anyting by not having a L-W barrel. They are OK for a cheap barrel, but if I want a cheap barrel I'd just as soon have a Wilson. (see above comment about treating customers)

John

Thanks gentlemen, just tossing a few things around.

Kutenay, I have used Bevan's barrels with superb success. The most consistent, non fussy rifle I have ever owned was a 300WM with a King barrel attached.

I also know the value of a good gunsmith. Bill, ya busy?

Allen, consistency is what I'm after.

Chuck

If you want stainless, then Ted Gaillard is hard to beat. I have his barrels on 220swift, 6-284,6.5-284,6.5STW and a 30-378 that is just about finished. Ted's barrels are as good as they come. Mark

I own barrels by hart,kreiger,schneider,mclennon,pac-nor and gaillard.All are comparable accurate but the schneider and gaillard do slightly foul less and clean easier.

gasgunner,
I should have been more explicit about the matches I was thinking about. I was referring to centerfire benchrest matches, where I try to keep tabs on what equipment is being used. I don't follow other kinds of shooting matches.
Sorry for the incomplete info.
35404,
Ted Gaillard is the guy I was thinking about but forgot his name.
Thanks,

Don

I had a custom model 70 338 that wore a stainless Gaillard barrel.

Chuck

Hello,
Your question is about Hart and/or Pac Nor and have heard good and bad about both, but personally never owned either. I have found that the most use of Hart is with the Bench Rest group. Shilen also is used a great deal by the Bench Rest group and they do hold several records. Some of my long range shooting buddies (NRA) do use the Pac Nor, but not that many. They do speak highly of them.
I happen to live near Douglas Barrel Co. and do use them for less than .30 caliber's, as in .223/22-250,6mm, etc. and find them to be superb barrels. I shoot long range matches, NRA, not bench, but from prone, w/ sling and usually micrometer rear sights and find the Douglas does as well as any I have owned. As for 30 caliber, believe the best available I have found is the Krieger, but the wait is long and the price is a bit up there. All of the "name" mfg's claim good results and the truth of the matter, most of them deliver on what they claim. Check out in your area some of the NRA long range shooters, for they will put thousands of rounds through a barrel and if they have been doing it for a while, they can give you some pretty solid info on barrel performance. Doubt that the average hunter will put more than 500 rounds a year in his barrel and the long range match shooter will put that many in a month if not more. He can tell you about the barrels performance.
Favor Center!!
dsiteman

Shilen ....but I guess that wasn't an option

Mike,
I think Kriegers are superb barrels. They are, perhaps, the best cut rifled barrel out made in North America. There are others which may be nearly as good though including those by Ron Smith. The Border barrels from Great Britain are also excellent barrels. My own next rifle will get a Hart (F class rifle) and my next hunting rifle a Shilen (375/338). This is because I have these barrels sitting on the shelf! Regards, Bill.

Every single manufacturer that has been mentioned is capable of making a very fine barrel. And, every one of them has made a so-so barrel. But, the odds are vastly in favor of the good. Douglas has had a reputation of a mid=grade barrel in the past, but is now showing up in the benchrest crowd and doing well. Every one of them must be fitted and chambered properly to realize the potential.

I'm on my 7th Hart, and their brochure had one of my rifles and a buck I killed on the cover. Am I prejudiced??? Well they are as good as you can get anywhere and better than most.

My chices would be Hart, MacLellan, Gaillard, Pac-Nor Not neccessarely in that order. They are all good.
bigbull