This is probably a common problem with predictable solutions. Hopefully.
I was deer hunting the other day with my Winchester in .416 rem mag, Beartooth 325gr flatness bullets. I shot a deer and tried to reload very slowly and quietly. The top of the chamber gouged into the lead flatness bullet and stopped. Of course I backed it up a bit and tried again but the bullet now had a spot cut into it and the result was me making a lot of noise getting reloaded. This would have been bad in a dangerous situation.
I'm not a gunsmith or a machinist. But I am very capable with mechanical stuff.
Gently round the sharp edges on the top of the chamber to make a little more like a feed ramp? That's my uneducated guess at a permanent solution.
Thanks!

Flat nose bullets often are difficult to feed. How does it feed with pointed or round nose bullets.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by nopride2:
Flat nose bullets often are difficult to feed. How does it feed with pointed or round nose bullets.

Dave

Bullets with less of a pronounced flat point feed fine. But the truth is I never had a misfeed with the flatnose bullets when I was reloading fast or at a moderate pace.

I wouldn't try to radius the chamber mouth; unless it is very sharp now. Correctly, that is done in the lathe. Just work the bolt faster, or single load them, which is faster anyway, than trying to ease one in from the magazine.

Thre's been a lot of debate, here and elsewhere. "The flat nose kills better" Well..in a dangerous situation, i'd rather have ANY bullet design make it to the chamber.

RN's have worked forever, but if FN are called for, it's up to the gunsmith to make them feed slow, fast, upside down..don't matter.

Certainly if factory FN's are out there, it should be mandatory for the mfg. to make darn sure they feed

Frank,

One complaint regarding M70s (not the pre-64s or the 2016 and newer FN mfg) is that the floorplate slot (very poorly done to save money) does not keep the magazine spring from sliding back and forth. Once slide to the rear it causing cartridge with heavy bullets to nosedive during feeding from the magazine.

Easy test is to reseat the magazine spring and recheck feeding. If it feed properly before it should feed just fine until the spring slips again.

If that's your problem I can PM you links on how to fix the issue. Or just purchase a new FN/Winchester 2016/2017 floor plate (best bet because it is correctly designed now.

If your issue is not with the magazine spring slipping in the floor plate - then as Duane noted, a trip to a good gunsmith is required...

Good luck.

quote:

it's up to the gunsmith to make them feed slow, fast, upside down..don't matter

Really ????????

So simple, ditch the flat nose, round nose kill just fine. The .416 Rem Mag is a DG rifle don't change the rifle, just don't piss with flat nose.

Experiment with overall cartridge length. I've solved a couple of feeding problems this way. Cheap too.

Dave

Virginia must have very tough deer.

quote:

Originally posted by DManson:
Virginia must have very tough deer.

Tough and dangerous.

Good fawking grief. Half the world is trying to make pointed bullets for cartridges that were designed for straight line, ram fed, leaver guns that were meant to take flat nosed bullets and the other half is trying to make flat nosed pistol bullets work in guns designed with stagger fed mags which were meant to be used with pointed bullets. Auto makers tried that crap with the Chevrolet El Camino, Ford Ranchero, GMC Sprint, GMC Caballero and that didn't work either !

If you want to run the Baja 1000, buy an alcohol sucking, steroid enhanced sand rail. If you want to run the Indy 500 buy a fawking Works Ferrari.

quote:

Originally posted by speerchucker30x378:
Good fawking grief. Half the world is trying to make pointed bullets for cartridges that were designed for straight line, ram fed, leaver guns that were meant to take flat nosed bullets and the other half is trying to make flat nosed pistol bullets work in guns designed with stagger fed mags which were meant to be used with pointed bullets. Auto makers tried that crap with the Chevrolet El Camino, Ford Ranchero, GMC Sprint, GMC Caballero and that didn't work either !

If you want to run the Baja 1000, buy an alcohol sucking, steroid enhanced sand rail. If you want to run the Indy 500 buy a fawking Works Ferrari.

perfect, I wish I had the ability to express my thoughts clearly like that, well said

quote:

Originally posted by aephilli:

perfect, I wish I had the ability to express my thoughts clearly like that, well said

Well, it wasn't all that elegant and it added nothing to the thread what-so-ever. More of an adolescent temper tantrum than anything else. But it did make me feel better. I guess. Maybe not. I probably should have kept my mouth shut.

let's see here, if you follow the rules laid down on this forum and others you need to do the following to correct this problem on any Model 70 with this ailment

Change the follower from a long mag to standard mag or from an Ultra mag to a 30-06 or back again. Use only the ones made by FN unless the New Haven ones are polished or have a special glint to the metal.

Weld up, solder or super glue on a rib or add width to one or both sides of the follower, reverse any and all procedures when necessary. Ultra mags are best because they just are. If you narrow the follower it can double as Muskie spoon.

Switch out the box, use and Ultra Mag magazine unless that doesn't work, then go to the long 300 Wtby/375 H&H and 416 Rem magazine. In the event that doesn't work slightly bend up the feed lips or bend down the feed lips. Try bending one up and one down, but only after its dark outside

Change the magazine spring, try to use a 700 or a Mauser, no better yet use a CZ, No convert it to single stack. But for God Sakes get the right spring, in the event this doesn't work reverse the order and change out the rear scope base.

Weld up the offending rail, but carefully and only use MIG. Be careful to get the TRIG right so the rounds are stacked in a 45 degree clump, I use rope to determine if she's stacked property. If required remove material from that offending feed rail but not other side, Sometimes removing the belts from all the cases works. Always use a Dremel for this operation, but not a shovel or was it a file and not a grinder ????

Most flat nose bullets will feed except on a diagonal, the only ones that won't are those that don't. Try to not buy the ones that don't. Alter the bullet ramp, but only by a snuggy, to much metal removed will cause vomiting and require welding back up the bullet ramp. Do worry about re heat treating as no one else does.

If all else fails it could be the recoil pad, cut it off last.



I am truly sorry,I could stop my fingers from hitting the keys.

quote:

I am truly sorry,I could stop my fingers from hitting the keys

Love it

I'm glad I'm not the only kid that's had a bad day.

S I G H !

quote:

Originally posted by DManson:
Virginia must have very tough deer.

I was thinking the same thing! I might need to replace the 06 if they migrate here.

Damn I'm glad that got cleared up

And I iterate. Quit using flat nose bullets.

Luck,

Stephen

quote:

Originally posted by speerchucker30x378:

quote:

Originally posted by aephilli:

perfect, I wish I had the ability to express my thoughts clearly like that, well said

Well, it wasn't all that elegant and it added nothing to the thread what-so-ever. More of an adolescent temper tantrum than anything else. But it did make me feel better. I guess. Maybe not. I probably should have kept my mouth shut.

Well, it was all true. Over on the lever action forums, people are trying to use "gummy tips" to get pointy boolits to "shoot flatter" in lever rifles...

made me feel better

completely forgot in all the fun - I have that happen with my round nose soft points (only when working the bolt "in a hurry" tho)
first thing I'm gonna try is gently chamfer the sharp edge of the base of the chamber

quote:

Originally posted by DArcy_Echols_Co:
If you narrow the follower it can double as Muskie spoon.

Not quite a muskie but I've confirmed the follower can be an effective lure...

quote:

Auto makers tried that crap with the Chevrolet El Camino, Ford Ranchero, GMC Sprint, GMC Caballero and that didn't work either !

Rod.

HMMM, I must have been one of those in my youth.

1963 Ford Ranchero, with an inline 6 cyl 3 speed
Drove it from 1976 to 1978

1966 Chev El Camino, SS
Drove it from 1978 till 1982
It would do the 1/4 mile in under 11 seconds as a street driven rig.
( Wish I had never sold it )

Then drove a 1978 Chev 1/2 ton PU 1982 to 1995, 120,000 miles I put on it, two engines, three transmison/transfer cases
I lost track of how many Bridgeport milling type machines I hauled in that half ton truck.


But back to the subject, the thing about the flat bullet nose is the larger bullet frontal section is not normal and can hang when going slow, UNLESS the rails have been worked over by some who really knows what they are doing.

JW

quote:

Originally posted by J Wisner:

HMMM, I must have been one of those in my youth.

JW

I try not to think of my youth Jim, it gives me acid reflux and night terrors. I once started listing off all of the stupid things I've done in my life (probably on some fool, double-dog-ass-dare) and half way through I had an anxiety attack. Apparently someone was listening and the next day I started getting calls from those, Guinness World Records people!

The nicest thing about the past is, that it is !

quote:

Originally posted by Evan K.:

quote:

Originally posted by DArcy_Echols_Co:
If you narrow the follower it can double as Muskie spoon.

Not quite a muskie but I've confirmed the follower can be an effective lure...

A slimy hammer handle northern

Western Gun Parts has BOXES of followers that have no provision to hold a spring that they have been sitting on for years. THOUSANDS of em. I'm having some sort of hot flash here. Just like when I peed on the electric fence as a kid!


I'M GONNA BE RICH !

Back to the OP. I am tinkering with a Montana V2 in 458 Lott with CEB 450 grain Flat Points. As others suggested, the cartridge length may be critical and it is an easy fix. CEB gives a seating depth, and it is right. A couple of 10's of a mm shorter or longer the rounds hang up. But, if you stay real close they always feed, I crimp (lee) the snot out of the bullets to make sure they do not move.

Two things I won't do nor do I need to and that's make a gun feed upside down as I never hang from a tree to shoot DG, its just not cricket..

The other is I use RN nose and pointy bullets for DG or any other game except in my Winchester lever guns, but even the Win bullets have simi flat nose with a bit of a radias as do the corelokts from Remington..The do that to make them feed...

I really see no need for RN or flat point soft point bullets, they don't really have much to offer that a spritzer bullet can't handle and perhaps better...Ive used RN and FN bullets mostly because they just look neat. Its mostly nostalgia I suspect.

Solids are a different ball game and both FP and RN have a place with them if your gun will feed them. Most DG rifles feed RN solids, quite a few will not feed flat nose solids.

I would not trust a DG rifle with my life that was picky about bullet seating. I would want it to feed bear cans or whatever else got crammed into it..