Just how bad are the drawbacks to using this product as opposed to others? I keep reading about it darkening the grain but have yet to notice that myself.

It seems to me that the majority of Tung oil products are too diluted with varnish to get a true satin/oil finish.

Does the darkening problem manifest itself more with certian woods? Take a long time?

One thing I like a lot about a true oil finish is that it can be cared for and even improved over time by simply adding another coat, not so with a harder varnish type of product.

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
Just how bad are the drawbacks to using this product as opposed to others? I keep reading about it darkening the grain but have yet to notice that myself.

It seems to me that the majority of Tung oil products are too diluted with varnish to get a true satin/oil finish.

Does the darkening problem manifest itself more with certian woods? Take a long time?

One thing I like a lot about a true oil finish is that it can be cared for and even improved over time by simply adding another coat, not so with a harder varnish type of product.

Just rubbing oil (linseed, tung or any other oil by itself) into the stock is not going to give you much of a finish...and will provide almost no protection to the wood at all.

I think you might be misunderstanding what is meant by a “satin/oil finish.†Those finishes are not accomplished by just rubbing oil (of any kind) into the stock.

Chic Worthing could probably fill up this site with a far better explanation of this than I ever could, so hopefully he will see this and respond.

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:

One thing I like a lot about a true oil finish is that it can be cared for and even improved over time by simply adding another coat, not so with a harder varnish type of product.

Not so sure about this as the last 2 old rifles I've bought, the wood looked plain in the extreem.
The first I rubbed the hell out of it with Linceed oil, which probably just rubbed of some gunk, and the last I just happened to use a silicone gun cloth, both came up showing timber with an inner glow, so to speak.
JL

linseed ot is a sh-tty finish. tru oil is much better but hard to control to get a good dull finish. I've had best luck with deft clear. It's a combination of tung oil and polyurethane. For the dull finish sand in the last couple of coats with some 400 grit wet/dry

This excerpt, from the site of the U.S. Forest Products Laboratory, in Wisconsin, explains why raw linseed oil is a poor finish. The boiled variant has its advocates, but I've not tried it.

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Linseed oil is obtained from flax seed. Raw (unprocessed) linseed oil is a mixture of several fatty acids, which have two interesting properties. First, these acids are natural products and as such are "food" for many organisms. Just as mold can grow on leftover potato salad, mildew grows very well on surfaces that contain linseed oil. Second, the chemical makeup of some of these acids makes it possible for them to react with oxygen in the air to form a solid. For raw linseed oil, this reaction is extremely slow. When linseed oil is boiled, changes occur in the chemical structure of the fatty acids that enable them to react with oxygen more quickly. The term "boiled" also includes linseed oil that has catalysts (also called "driers") that make it react with oxygen more quickly. Boiled linseed oil can be used to make finishes. However, in most modern finishes, linseed oil is modified to form an "alkyd" resin, which makes the finish less prone to mildew.

When my dad passed away in 1990 I got a bunch of wood finishing products including some boiled linseed oil. I have used it on some very old dry stocks like on my 30/30 and it brings old worn out looking wood back to life real nicley.
I am going to stocking 2 rifles soon and I will be taliking with my smith to get an experienced point of view.
I am thinking of a AA fancny walnut thumb hole with rosewood for my 25.06. Probably Richards Microfit. I might go full house custom on the springfield I just bought, I got time on the springfield, Richards sells a stock finish kit, that i might use.
its only 15 bucks, anyway a year from now I will know a bunch more about stock finishing.
...tj3006

Linssed oil is some dangerous stuff if not handled properly. Oily rags can easily cook off if not disposed of properly. I threw some in a metal trash can once and within 3 hours they were smoking. Don't burn your shop down.

One professional stockmaker once made the comment that "there's no such thing as a GOOD oil finish", and I agree with him. Referring to natural oil finishes, of course, and linseed oil most specifically.

Linseed oil is seductive. It smells good, and it really looks good as you rub it into the stock, imparting a warm reddish tone to the wood. Then as it penetrates it darkens, clouds the wood, and looks dull. It never really dries out, and it doesn't really protect the wood well in bad weather. You always have to add more of the stuff to the stock. The process never ends, and the results are never optimal.

The best easy-to-use linseed-based finish I know of and have used with really great results is JB 'Linspeed', available from Brownell's.

http://www.brownells.com

Linspeed features all of the positive features of linseed oil, with none of the drawbacks.
I always worked Linspeed back to the surface of the wood every-other coat until the pores were perfectly full, then I applied the final THIN last two coats with a woolen rag and let the stock cure until it was absolutely dry. It's important that the coats are dry, and it's important that you give the stock a final drying period before you handle it. Get in a rush and you will blow the whole program. With open-pored black walnut factory stocks, I've applied up to fifty coats to get the pores really flush and finished, working back down to the surface of the wood every two coats.

AD

I have to agree, linseed is a mess. I once put some on a very nice piece of English. It turned black and super dark muddy brown. I do not want to sand it since the metal and checkering are all done. Could I soak it in stripper and solvent to get the black goop out of the wood? Anyone ever tried to undo a linseed mess?

http://www.muzzleblasts.com/vol5no2/articles/mbo52-1.html

The above is a link to a site that tells you how to make varnish out of linseed oil. Basically you are adding dryers to help the polymerization process along. Would a vranish made out of linseed oil be better than one made out of modern resins, like spar varnish? Seems like you are getting closer to Linspeed and such. It would certainly be better than linseed since it dries better, which is the main problem with linseed. So why not just skip ahead to a real finish that dries?

I place no special powers to any "oil" finish. I learned a few things about putting a clear finish on wood over the years. Stock finishing comes down to putting on a liquid that dries to a solid. Hmmmm, that really covers a lot of teritory. To refine it further, the resulting solid should stick, not crack, be clear, dry/harden, be waterproof, be easy to use, sandable, and so on. I do not think Linssed oil, walnut oil, tung oil and so on do those things as well as a modern coating.

A modern coating like conversion varnish, spar varnish, catalized poly, and such do a much better job. They dry faster and more completely. They stick better and make a better water barrier. The look obtained in the end is dependant on how you apply and work the finsh, not so much on what exactly you slather on the wood. It only took me about a hundred gunstocks to figure that out! : )

For most of the guys doing an occasional stock, I would reccomend McClosky spar varnish. Get the satin stuff at your local hardware store. Fill the grain with a dark colored paste wood filler first. Float the varnish on with a sable brush, one coat per day or every other day. Wet sand between coats with 400 grit paper. When you have some decent build rub it out with Dupont automotive rubbing compound and water. If it is too shiny for your taste rub out with super fine steel wool, water and rubling compound. That is it, simple.

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
Just how bad are the drawbacks to using this product as opposed to others? I keep reading about it darkening the grain but have yet to notice that myself.

It seems to me that the majority of Tung oil products are too diluted with varnish to get a true satin/oil finish.

Does the darkening problem manifest itself more with certian woods? Take a long time?

One thing I like a lot about a true oil finish is that it can be cared for and even improved over time by simply adding another coat, not so with a harder varnish type of product.

The drawback to linseed oil, as already stated, is it hardens too slow, even boiled linseed oil. Even after solidifying it's not completely hard and will bleed out of the wood over time.

It does darken the grain on some woods, but it won't darken it a whole lot. If you want real dark wood then you've gotta stain it. My boss at my old job (in a woodshop) told me it can take months to years before a piece is clearly darker.

What is a "true oil" finish?
IMHO oils are left in the dust as far as surface finishes go. Varnishes, polys, and all sorts of blends are much better than oils for scuff resistance and water resistance.

On my next piece of woodwork (black cherry) I'm going to finish it by soaking in linseed oil, then put a topcoat of Waterlox, a [heavily] modified tung oil. The linseed oil makes the grain more distinct and the Waterlox is very durable.

quote:

The linseed oil makes the grain more distinct and the Waterlox is very durable.

If you want to make a piece of wood pop there are better ways than linseed. First one to come to mind is to stain with a penetrating stain, a dye, or an active chemical. Nitric acid on maple followed by heat comes to mind for the last one. Make the wood super dark. Now that it is dark cut it back with fine sand paper. The stain will penetrate deeper in some areas than others. When it has the most contrast stop and finish the wood. This is how to get the tiger stripes to show up in maple. If you do the same kind of thing, stain then cut back, you can make walnut show it's best. Try to have some bits of nearly black and some nearly white.

There is an easier way though, you could just buy some quality wood in the first place. Sure you can make some pretty crappy wood look better. Problem is you will spend lots of time an money fiddling around. The money part could go to a better grade of wood.

Someone mentioned fungi attacking linseed and making black stains. That does make sense. I recently power washed a redwood deck that had been repeatedly slathered with linseed oil. This was beautiful stuff, top grade 100% clear heartwood. Much of it was quarter sawn. Can't even buy it today. Anyway the deck was coal black and had congealed oil all over it. A pretty sad mess. Decks and gunstocks are not the same, I realize that. The coal black wood does suggest something is going on though. The deck came out great after I blasted the old dried oil off the surface.

quote:

There is an easier way though, you could just buy some quality wood in the first place. Sure you can make some pretty crappy wood look better. Problem is you will spend lots of time an money fiddling around. The money part could go to a better grade of wood.

Hehe, I have little money, thats why I have neither high grade wood nor stains and such
Heck, I didn't even pay for the linseed oil and waterlox.

I redid the stock on a Lithgow SMLE not too long ago with a stock kit I bought from AIM. The wood was mahagony (I think). I read somewhere that the correct finish for a SMLE would be linseed oil so I bought some at the hardware stock and tried it. Although it did take on that warm reddish hue that everyone loves, after three more coats the wood got real dark and tacky.

I ended up putting some tung oil over it to seal it in. I was not impressed with the linseed results in any way, shape, or fashion.

In my uneducated opine, linseed oil is best saved for a cabinet or picture frame - something for the interior that demands hand rubbed finish. You'd probably do better to use some matte poly or tung oil for your stock.

*I know there are better ways than what I mentioned, but I'm too damned impatient with drying times ect. to be much of a good wood worker or wood finisher. Mr. Worthington, Mr. Soverns, I don't know how you guys do it all the time...

Tex

quote:

Originally posted by Fumbler
What is a "true oil" finish?
IMHO oils are left in the dust as far as surface finishes go. Varnishes, polys, and all sorts of blends are much better than oils for scuff resistance and water resistance.

“Tru-Oil†is the name of a product made by Birchwood Casey...it’s not a process.

If you can find a copy, you ought to read the book; “Gunstock Finishing and Care...How to choose and use the proper stains,oils and finishes“, by Don Newell. He was an avid gun nut that also happened to work as a technician for a major paint company, so he had access to tons of information and data, as well as testing facilities.

No “opinions†or “Urban Legendsâ€...he uses actual tests and explains the chemical make up of all the stuff and what it does and doesn’t do, and why it does or doesn’t work well for stock use.

It also has a great info on all of the different woods suitable for gun stocks...and has some good comparison pictures of different finishing processes in progress.

It was published in 1975 so allot of the newer products aren’t in there but it is still a wealth of knowledge and info on this topic for anyone who is interested in finishing gun stocks or anything else made of wood.