I've been away for a while and now I see you folks talking about a M1999 "Mini" action. Can someone fill me in on just what this is. Hopefully it is about the size of a Cooper Model 21 or at least as small as an XP-100......I went to Montana Rifleman's site but there is no word of it there.

This is going to be a true "Mini" action. It will be (and please excuse me as the complete specifications are not quite done yet) a .223 length action with a .378" bolt face. It will be magazine fed and the magazine box should be around 2.5" or so long. As soon as I have more definate specs I will post them here as well as on our web site. It is still in the design phase so nothing is yet set in stone. If anyone has ideas as to what you want in a MINI action please let us know and we will consider everything.

Thanks, Dan

Thanks Dan,
Here are a few ideas. Magazine length needs to be greater than 2.65. It should be long enough for folks to feed a 222 Remington Mag case with an 80 grain Sierra bullet. This is the longest combination of bullet and case for the 223 bolt face and lots of folks might want to chamber in 222 Rem Mag Ackley with fast twist barrels for longe range varminting.
Stock availability is always an issue for custom actions. I would suggest that it use a round receiver and not a flat bottom receiver like the rest of the MR line. Much easier to fit into an unbedded stock. But better yet, just make it exactly like a Remington Model 7 / XP 100 and be done with it. In this way, you could simply order up an 7/XP stock from any of the stock manufacturers and have a drop in fit.
The trigger will become a deciding factor on weather I will purchase an action. Again, don't buck conventional wisdom. Make it accept a Rem 700 trigger and the world will be at peace!
Give it a bolt mounted safety so the trigger will not need a safety and the varmint shooters will beat a path to your door.....
Rampo had an action such as this and it sold extremely well. It became the darling of the small caliber varmint/target field. But unfortunatly an internal "partner" problem did in Rampo.
Thanks for listening......Waiting to place an order!

I say scap the mini action for now. Get to work on the PPC/WSSM action instead, and make it available with a .378 bolt face.

What's a mini action as opposed to an action that would chamber a .223 round? My next rod will be a .223 and I'd like to build it on an MRC action.
2210 hrs., EDT: Just looked at the USRAC website for info about the .223 WSSM cartridge. Yes, I agree with Long Shot that MRC ought to get some thoughts down on the cocktail napkin about this action. Higher velocity, more muzzle energy and less drop at 300 yds than .223 Rem. What about designing a short/WSSM bolt that could be quickly and easily machined by a gunsmith to go from .223Rem to .223WSSM with some kind of magazine blocker to take up the difference in cartridge overall length? Certainly, a new barrel would be required-- at the very least, a new chambering. Am I out of bounds, here?

[ 07-05-2003, 06:25: Message edited by: rootbeer ]

A single CRF action that can handle both a 223 Rem (.378" case body) and a 223 WSSM (.550" case body) is a lot to ask of some poor engineer/gunsmith who has to make both of those cases feed properly.
Doesn't a true "mini" action only have a .500" diameter bolt? A great little size for the 223 Remington case, but not something the 223 WSSM will ever work with.

Hopefully there will be enough demand for a dedicated WSSM sized action, and a "mini" action sized for the 223 Remington, but I think that it's going to take MRC a while to get the current plans a little closer to being done before they can be starting a new action size for WSSM.

Dan, You are on the right track with the mini. I don't know what everyone is trying to get at with changes to your original plan. The mini is for the .223 size cartridges. Other cartridges will work in other actions. As far as I know the action you propose is unique and a perfect match for your line of actions. I've already begun to design the rifle I want around one based on what you have said will be the dimensions, (with some tolerances of course). I think it will be a very nice action and will catch on as more people become aware of it. Also, does MRC have, or will have, 20 caliber barrels?

Per CMc: "A single CRF action that can handle both a 223 Rem (.378" case body) and a 223 WSSM (.550" case body) is a lot to ask of some poor engineer/gunsmith who has to make both of those cases feed properly."

Don't the M70 and the A-Bolt short actions already handle .223 Rem thru WSM cartridges? Seems like the poor engineers/gunsmiths already have it figured out.

[ 07-05-2003, 18:29: Message edited by: Long Shot ]

Longshot

Yes Winchester/Browning make 223 Remington and 223 WSSM rifles - on two seperate actions. They are introducing their new CRF/push feed very short action for the WSSM. I presume they couldn't get the WSSM cartridge case to feed properly in the standard M70 short action. Why else would they go to the expense of redesigning (both length and feed design) for a new action for just two calibers?
New calibers in the future? - I don't think so. 17 and 20 caliber cartridges are a very small market mostly served by wildcats due to the small demand. With the success of the 17 HMR, you might argue that Winchester should introduce a 17 WSSM. I would argue that the 17 HMR removes any market at all for a 17 WSSM. Larger calibers? I think that if Winchester introduces a short fat 25/6.5 caliber cartridge it will be on the WSM case, not the WSSM.

CMc

You missed the point. If it is possible for the M70 and A-bolt to be chamber and feed .223 Rem and 300 WSM in their short action, it should be possible for MRC to design their proposed PPC/WSSM action to chamber and feed a .223 Rem or .22WSSM.

Longshot

Why would you expect MRC to do something that Winchester couldn't?
The WSSM case is harder to make feed in a CRF action due to it's shorter length than the WSM case, the angles quickly get too steep and the case hangs up or pops out when the rim tries to go under the extractor. This is why the Winchester WSSM action is a "CRF/Push Feed" action, Winchester couldn't make a true CRF action work reliably. Trying to make a WSSM case and a 223 Rem case work in the same CRF action would be nearly impossible. Think about a bolt with a large enough diameter to fit the WSSM case, then imagine what the extractor would look like on a boltface for the 223 Rem case on that same bolt. How are you going to get feed lips to hold a 223 Rem case and align it for proper feeding into that big bolt, and yet still allow a WSSM case to pass through them? Yes, a replacable magazine could do it, because there would be one mag for the 223 Rem, and another for the WSSM. And some kind of adapter to hold that skinny 223 Rem mag in the fat WSSM sized mag well. There are so many problems trying to get two cases with a 50% diameter difference between them to work that it's just MUCH easier to go with two actions.

Long Shot
CMcDermott

I don't know if MRC will ever make the WSSM action, although I have dibs on one. Dan, in another post has stated that the action will be suitable for .445 (PPC), .473 (22 BR) and the WSSM cases. Seems like if they can make the .445 case feed, they can make the .378 case feed as well.

From an accuracy standpoint, I think a .223 built on the beefier WSSM action should have great accuracy potential. Anyway, what's the point in fussing about the chamberings of an action that may never be made?

Regards,

South40

The idea of making a WSSM case feed reliably is a little crazy anyway. The sheer geometry of the cartridge is such that it will be next to impossible to get it accomplished. Even Winchester has discussed dropping the repeater and going to a single shot. Besides, the cartridge is a varmint cartridge. Even my repeaters get single fed when I'm popping sage rats and dogs. I think the cartridge has got some appeal, but only a single shot. That's a pretty easy task for anyone to accomplish.

We are currently looking into the idea of making a action that can handle either the WSSM cartridge and the PPC reliably. There is nothing definate right now, but it is being worked on and a lot of thought is going into the design.

I say keep on with plans for a mini action suitable for .223 sized cartridges. That's exactly what I've been looking for, and thought I had found in the Interarms Mini Mark 10. While that rifle was compact and built around the .223 cartridge, and also astoundingly accurate, it was frustrating to say the least in the reliability department. Hard to work the bolt, failures to feed, jams, and poor ergonomics as to low scope mounting/bolt handle clearance issues soured me on this liitle gem. I finally sold it to some poor guy, although I told him all about the problems. Man, while I was going through all the turmoil over that gun, I longed for a Mauser-based system sized down for the .223 that someone had done their homework on and got all the kinks out of. I'll buy one, just to make a cool little walk-around varminter. Bet others will, too.

Just purchase a CZ if you want a Mini Mauser that works. Fantastic rifle for the money....

The current thoughts at MRC when I moved over to Acrabond was both a short and fat (read WSSM) and a skinny mini (.376 bolt face) Two actions with relatively the same magazine length and bolt throw.

Similarities ended there. A .223 optimized action is NEAT. Small, light, trim. Can't get there with a .534 bolt face, and so the product plan split in two directions. Take the current SA design, and lop off another half inch. WSSM.

Go to an all new design for the real mini, taking numbers from both the CZ and the Mini-Mark X.

We WILL make stocks for either one, or both, just as soon as we can get our hands on production castings.