I have a somewhat sporterized Greek mannlichers where the metalwork still looks original and in quite good shape. I was thinking of recreating a nice light sporter in original guise for a nice open sighted whitetail rig. Are the actions the same as the sporting models that would be a somewhat easy job to duplicate? I'd like to recreate the butter knife bolt handle along with the rest.

I have one plus a mannlicher stock with the same intention. It would be essentially the same as the commercial version. I wanted to make it a 7x57; have to open up the mag spool, but never got around to it. I don't want a 6.5mm. Easy? If you can do the work it will be.

I can do the work, I'll just need a bit of research for some 'guideance'

I have a Hungarian Mannlicher which is the same as the Greek except that it has a box magazine instead of the spool. They made them for the Germany during WWII. Lost of work to change calibers on the 6.5 spool magazine one, besides opening up the spool you may also have to relieve the stock that is along side the spool. They are very difficult to put a scope mount on. I scoped mine with Redfield bases. There is a retired gunsmith that still makes them. Even with a very low butter knife bolt handle the scope is still high. I didn't like the side mounts for a scope and some require milling the side of the receiver. Didn't like that idea at all. If you're going to use iron sights then no problems at all. If you're going to get a new barrel installed there's nothing wrong with the 6.5x54MS cartridge. Getting a modern barrel in that caliber will ensure the bullet diameter is proper size for the bore and groove and it should shoot accurately. Being mine has a box magazine and originally was and 8x57 Mauser I put a Shilen 7x57 barrel on it. Nice rig and super smooth bolt.

Figured on keeping caliber the same unless I might be able to make a 6.5 swede work, but probably just try and duplicate one of the fine sporters of the day. May have someone else do the TIG work for the bolt handle, but other than that I can do the rest of it.

The Greek 6.5 that I have will only feed 160rn bullets.

I only got this far with it. Have to find a smith that will do the barrel and stock.

http://home.pipeline.com/~shootzm/ms-stock-6.jpg

Mine needed a new stock & imported a semi-inletted stock from GASC and did the stock work myself with had rubbed oil finish. I gt the nose piece also from brownells.

I got the butter knife bolt handle from Brownells and got a local smith to fix it - tig welded.

Unfortunately now the bore is stuffed after I tried to polish it. It was a very rak & pitted bore with years of corrosice military ammo use I suppose.







The oiling was very time consuming - 20+ coats - going down to a final 1000 grit paper!
The scope mounts are from Watts Walnut. He makes a batch on a CNC machine & sells on ebay now.

The Hung one with box mag is the G98/40. The 6.5 Swede has a bigger case head than the 6.5 Mann (or the 7x57) so won't work in the spool.

Relative to the question of changing the chambering of the 1903 Greek, was it Ackley that said "Don't", a response my sad experience would confirm.

Please relate your sad tale.

Thanks guys, definitely an open sight only, I just want a classic little woods rifle that will look a lot like the originals. I'll keep the same caliber too, but new barrel. I've got enough 6.5 blanks laying around here but they're all stainless, a bead blasted finish and melonite might be OK though.

Matt, do you have access to a 6.5X54MS reamer?

I don't have one on hand, but I know a guy that most likely has one as he's been gunsmithing for 40+ years, but if not I'll be ordering one. Might just have an old reamer re-ground @ptg.

dpcd When I was even younger and dumber I decided to change the action to a 7x57. The spool had to be changed, the flat sides of the action had to be cut back (54 case is smaller than 57). Finally got it to feed, but not well. Fortunately, I had bought 5 actions from Bill Rogers at Springfield Sporters for $6 each. Gave the ruined one away and vowed never to try to change one again. Maybe the only smart thing I ever said.

Here's one I did a few years ago. Cut down & reshaped military stock, which was badly beaten and dinged, added ebony tip, recontoured TG, tigged bolt knob, reshaped rear sight base, cut barrel down & added barrel band & FN front sight, reblued. Some guys replace the bolt handle with a butterknife and modify the trigger as described in the de Haas book.

I did a sporterized version using a spoon bolt handle off a Mod 21 BRNO that I found in my junk box. I shortened the barrel to 21" and made new open sights, cut down the stock and added ebony tip. Be glad to send you pics but I don't know how to post pics on this sight.

Disassembly's Greek Mannlicher:

Clicking the link below will show you my effort in sporterising a Breda 27 MS. Please excuse the finish and chequering, but look at the profile that can be got from the original stock by cutting up behind and in front of the grip node and adding pieces from a broken ebony elephant. The sights come I think from old CZ 22s. The butt is short because it was set up for my young sons to use. The other rifle is an FN Mauser .30/06 slimmed and sculpted to look something like a post-war FN sporter. Both rifles have carved cheekpieces.


http://s561.photobucket.com/us...recent]=1&sort=1&o=0

I have the chamber reamer, dies, 100 pcs of new norma brass and 20 sticks of turkish walnut to choose from along with several 6.5mm cut rifled barrel blanks. If I get a few more projects done this might be my winter project.
Thanks all for the info, it's given me some good ideas.

Several years ago a gunsmith here milled some from the right rear of the receiver from the clip guide back in order for the new bolt handle to be lower. It gave more clearance for the scope mount and worked great.

One of my mentors was a lifetime very talented gunsmith and tool and die maker. He spent many hours trying to modify M.S. 6.5X54 spool magazines to reliably feed 7X57 and 250-3000 cartridges. He could get them to feed two and sometimes three rounds but never a magazine full reliably.

There was a barrel maker long ago, McGowan who was a fan of M.S. rifles and recognized this problem early on. He developed a series of wildcats based on the 6.5X54 M.S. case, necked up or down to any bore size you could imagine. He tooled up with the appropriate reamers and dies and would rebarrel your M.S. to a caliber of choice and sell you the dies to go with it at a very reasonable price. That was many years ago, he and his tooling are gone.

Damn; I had intended to make mine a 7x57; I do not want a MS caliber. I figured I could make it work like I do everything else. Now I see, maybe not.....

To me those rifles just don't look right with a scope screwed to the side of the action. I am contemplating an aperture mounted on the cocking piece though, although the striker assembly sure does have enough mass as it is. Standard open sights, a nice dropped comb, full-length forearm....that'd be how I picture it.

Right; no scope and a peep sight on the cocking piece will be fine. Don't worry about cocking piece slop or slow striker fall; it will be accurate enough for any open sight hunting. Do not make the forearm with a belly; make sure it is slim like the original MS sporters. And do not make the barrel too long; those look funny on a FL forearm.

I was hoping to stretch the barrel out to 20", but may just do the 18ish to keep the proper aesthetics.

Deleted as I posted this in March!

Sorry for the "brain fart"!

Aesthetics is everything when building a full length MS stock; otherwise there is no reason to do it. There is certainly no advantage to it over a half stock. Only looks.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Do not make the forearm with a belly; make sure it is slim like the original MS sporters. And do not make the barrel too long; those look funny on a FL forearm.

Yes, I left too much belly on mine for some reason, maybe because the original military stock came hollowed out, leaving only a few mm to work with. I might refinish it at some stage and take it up a bit more there, though.

Also, I might take more in front of the grip cap, to give a fuller-looking pistol hand. The last matt plastic finish was put on 20 years ago and I seem to recall the military stock was already exposing the guard screw before I started, so I'll go easy around the inletting. The trigger guard is a separate bit, of course, so guess I could shorten the screw, dig out under the inletting and take it up farther to approach the commercial elegance.

But that could mean I'd need to shorten the trigger again, reducing the leverage, so maybe not.

As to the barrel, I had mine shortened to 23.5" for the half-stock rifle but worried about power loss in this diminutive calibre, so did not go shorter, even though I had a nice M98 metal end-cap that could have served on a carbine.

Matt,
I too have a 1903 Greek that's been sporterized with an 18" cut military barrel and full length stock. The bore is dark, but still shoots straight. I have considered replacing the barrel with a 7.62 x 39 chambering as the cartridge dimensions are close to the 6.5 x 54, other than the length.

Try to cycle a few empty cases in your 1903 action and see if it works for you. The MS action is the best controlled round feed and will easily chamber an empty case. Not so, with other magazine bolt guns.

My 1903 is my go to pig culling gun. The 7.62 x 39 in a mini mauser has also proven to be very effective on the porkers.

Has anyone tried this conversion?

Geoff

The only way you can get an MS rotary magazine to feed any other cartridge reliably is to change the spool to a custom made or a dedicated caliber spool

I once saw a MS rifle with a 243 barrel where someone had welded on a "U" shaped metal bit to the front of the magazine so that it held the bullet tips down. I am not sure how reliable it was in feeding.

Another factor with the MS magazine spool, it is very sensitive to the shape of the bullet. My 9.5X57 MS rifle which is a take-down mode that i have just restocked myself - it will chamber the original Kynoch round nosed ammo perfectly but will only take 4 of the Sierra SP GK handloads!

I have no issues with the 6.5X54 and just spent $200 for the chamber reamer...I'm for sure going to use it at least this once! If anyone else would like a nice 1903 rebarreled, I can possibly help you out. As to the 7.62, if it can do that, I wonder how the 6.5 Grendel, 6mmAR, etc might work also...wait, no I don't...happy with the Mannlicher round as it is. I found some boxes of OLD 6.5 bullets, the nickel colored Norma's, old sierra's and hornady's, 120's through 160gr. Also have a few hundred of the 156gr oryx bullets that I planned to use in it. 18" bbl, open sights, classic styling...that's it.

Better get on it, although Pierce just called this week to inform me that two titanium actions were ready with my name on it...reading these forums just plain screws you into doing all sorts of shit. Read Butch's threads on that Ti action and just thought to myself, a short action 284 Win with a wyatt's box all-around medium game, midwest rifle finished at 6lbs with scope or so, and the other is a LA mag BF for an 'all-around' 300 Win mag for hunting out west, maybe 7lbs full-up with a 25" barrel.... This mannlicher will happen, but these other two will happen first. I can delay woodworking with the best of them.

Matt Salm, I have sent you a PM.

I wonder if Steyr ever made spare spools for the MS magazine in bigger calibres, and whether any of these would fit the Greek action?