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Can't find the twist of a 25-35 Win. can anyone give me that info..All the barrels Ive checked out are 1x10, so who would make me a properly twisted 25 caliber barrel for the Marlin..It will have a 2.5X Leupold Alaskan and probably a custom stock..I will shoot factory ammo, load 117 gr. HOrnadys at 2300 FPS and 97 gr. Monolithic flat nose Hollow Points from GS Customs..Maybe a 1x10 would work, not sure and the Winchester, Savage, Marlin 25-36 didn't have a 1x10 as I recall. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | ||
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It's 1 in 8 Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Unlike the .25-20 which was twisted either 14" or 16", most .25-35's were twisted 8". That said, JBM's bullet stability calculator shows that a 10" twist will stabilize a 117 gr Hornady RN at 2300 fps.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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thanks for the answers..I think I'll go with 1x10 as they can be bought quicker and cheaper than 1x8, and faster delivery it seems..I believe the 1x10 will work with both the 97 gr. GS Custom HVHP flat point, as its a long bullet, being a monolithic and the same length as the 117 gr. Hornaday RN..I have little or no need for the lighter varmint bullets in this gun. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Ray, You should measure the length of that GS bullet and run it thru a twist calculator. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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it needs to be shorter than 1.08 inches assuming 2600 fps Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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FYI, the 100 grain barnes TSX won't stabilize in a 1 in10 at 2600 fps. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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And solid copper bullets are a waste of money in a 25-35. | |||
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My use of the GS Customs bullet in the 25-35 with the 97 gr. GS Customs bullet has been outstanding in my Win Saddle Ring carbine on both whitetail and Mule deer and one Antelope..It penetrates well and opens up like a flower. I get a one inc exit or better on broadside shots, and all have been broadside or near broadside...IMO it kills quicker. better blood trails, and out performs the slower 117 gr. Hornady and all factory ammo..Ive been using the GS Customs for about a year or so, and its my preferred deer hunting bullet. I get better accuracy and performance with the 97 gr. GS Customs in my SRC by far at 1" to 1-1/4"s and its tang sight makes a difference with all bullets. Basically I,ve shot WW factory for most of my life in my 25-35 of some many years, In the last 40 plus years I mostly used handloads with WW brass, 210 Fed. primers, and H-380 is the most accurate powder and the fastest and the only available bullet for years was the 117 gr. Hornady, a great bullet..I also get best accuracy by reducing the GS Customs handload to 2500 FPS as opposed to 2600-2700 FPS..I get best heavy bullet accuracy and velocity with a load of H380, 210, WW, and the Hornady 117 at 2300 FPS. I suspect the Marlin with a scope and better barrel will surpass my SRC, and be a cool saddle gun, and pickup gun to play with..BTW I get better penetration with the 25-35 over my 30-30 gets with any bullet for what its worth, although both get full broadside penetration on deer size animals and both perform equally as far as I can tell on animals of any size. dpcd, What do you base that post on? Have you killed game with it, or every tried them. MIke, It is .90 in length, it works in a 1x8 and apparently all weights work better in a 1x10 according to Francis Sell and Ken Howell..Both did very detailed articles of this conversion and the Tomcat as well. I can't find Sells copy, but have Ken Howells article from Handloader #204, April 2000..My rifle will be a copy of his rifle, except I will use a douglas or Lothar Walthar barrel, I have a Douglas on hand..Ken covered all the need details and did some extensive testing or the std 25-35 Win..His rifle shot 72 gr. Speers, 86gr. Rem (25-20) bullets, and the 117 gr. Hornady..allshot well in his Donnely barrel, work by Richard Ruggiero.. Im looking forward to finishing this gun. It will come pretty close to factory 250-3000s 100 gr. bullets according to my chronograph, but not quite, just close enough for guvment work!  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I'm not sure it really matters whether a Barnes 100gr TSX will stabilize in a 10" twist since it is a spitzer and it is unlikely Ray will be loading up his .25-35 with spitzers? Ideally, yes, an 8" would be nice due to the low velocities of the cartridge but then again, the round nose bullets it is designed to fire are short enough to stabilize in a 10" twist. Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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ZiR, and all, the only 25 caliber 97 gr. bullet is by GS customs, its a flat nose hollow point and it will shoot in a 1x10 twist and in a 1x8 for that matter, as well as the 75 gr. Speer and the 86 gr. 25-20 bullets, but the 86s have never been accurate in any 25-35 that I know of..Ive used the 97 gr. in my Winchester for several years now and its awesome, but the Win will not shoot the 75 or 86 gr. flat nose bullets, not at all..According to those that have built the Marlins, the 1x10 is the way to go. the 97 gr. GS Customs is the best killing bullet Ive ever used in the 25-35, it out penetrates anything Ive used and it expands fully an most of the time gives you an exit hole the size of a quarter..Im mot new to the caliber, just new to the 336 Marlin, but an uncle of mine had a mod 93 Marlin in 25-36 that he shot 25-35 factory 117 g. ammo in, and he killed a ton of deer on his ranch over his long life with that gun, and at least a half dozen elk. It was his only gun, and he was a deadly shot with it. He did however know its capabilities, and stressed point that to me on many occasions. The best information to be had is from Ken Howells articale in Handloader April of 2000..Very informative, He, Francis Sell, Richard Ruggearo (SP?) and other gunsmiths that have worked with this caliber recommend the 1x10 twist and agree Win used the 1x8 and that it was a mistake, some say it was to make it shoot black powder, maybe so, dunno, but it was decided in the 25-35s infancy and it was the first or tied for first mod. 94.. Im going with 1x10 Douglas based on my research, and if it doesn't work I'll rebarrel it..I will shoot the GS Customs at 2700 FPS in this Marlins 24 inch barrel and the 117 gr. HOrnady at a bit over 2300 FPS or wherever the accuracy is..Its a project that Ive longed for over a number of years..I was going to go with he tomcat, the improved version, but I have a 250-3000..I also dislike fireforming cases especially with brass that's hard to come by short of makin them from 30-30. I have a lot of 25-35 factory ammo and lots of handloaded ammo on hand..Jack Belk will be doing the barrel work. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Ray - a quick and dirty check would be to load some of the 97 GS Custom bullets in your 10 inch twist 250-3000 to the velocity you expect to get with the 25-35. | |||
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Sells article on the tomcat is in Rifle number 83, sept/oct of 1982. He used a 1-9 twist. I have a Winchester rebarreled to 25/35, a marlin to 25/35, a marlin to 25/35 imp and an old Sav 99 that was .303 relined to 25/35imp to keep the neat old octo to round 26" barrel. All have a 1-10 twist and none has caused any issue. The 86 grn 25-20 bullets don't like the fast twist and seem to shred their jackets in the 1-8 original 25/35's. They shoot fine in the 1-10's. | |||
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Given the GS is .9 inches it will be fine in a 1-10. Z1 - my comment on the Barnes was only as a reference point. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I have been using the GS Customs 97 gr. bullet in my 250-3000 mod 99 TD to shoot and hunt with on Doe depredation hunts, as well as my 94 SRC in 25-35. GS Customs said the weight and length etc etc, that is should work in the 25-35 and the 250, with 1x8 and 1x14..It does and I shot a group in my old FN 250-3000 with a 1x10 and got under an inch, but that gun shoots about any bullet to the same POI..Then I talked to a number of folks, read some interesting articles, Back 40 on AR has a number of 25s and uses a 1x10 twist on all of them, so Im going with the 1x10 I have on hand. ONe thing Im sure of is there are no guarentees until you pull the trigger..  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Back 40, Ive owned many 25-35 Winchesters over the years and have yet to find a Win. that would shoot the 86 gr. Rm. 25-20 bullet, and but one that would shoot the 75 gr. Speer, Todate the only two bullets Ive had luck with are he 117 g. Hornady and the 97 gr. GS Customs..99% of the two varmint bullets wouldn't even print on the target much less group. Seems that both the Marlins in the articles by Sells, and Howell handled them fairly well and that seems logical in that the twists are different than the factory win..only owned one Marlin in a 25-36 and I only shot factory 25-36 and 25-35 ammo in it..I would have liked the Marlin mod 93 in 25-36 for this project but feel the 336 is probably a stronger actions??? and a cheaper option to build on. The marlin mod. 93 is a beautiful gun however but wow, they do cost big bucks these days and in 25-36 they really jump the fence on cash outlay. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I Hear ya. Your point is well taken. I counseled customers that were rebarreling to go with a fast twist whenever possible as the trend in bullets is longer and more pointy. And over rotation is typically a non issue except in the case of very light weight frangible bullets. Having a spare Win 94, I've been thinking of embarking on the very project that Ray is undertaking. Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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