Here's a good 'un - how to tell when you are too old for squat!

I have 4 Steyr Prohunters, 3 standard actions, one short. I removed all bolts for storage, apart from the "owner" rifles. Now, not then, but now, I see that they are not etched with the last 4 or 5 numbers of the rifle serial number. The short bolt is "home". I now have to sort out an '06, a 6.5mm SE and a .280 Rem combo, getting it right.

I see no way out but to get some go gages and sort them out. And then, etch in the numbers to avoid another screw up like this. Two have identical bolt heads and I am thinking that the 6.5 also is the same, although the casehead itself is a bit different in measurement.
I do not see any easy way to sort them out apart from the gage route (safest).

I sent a help message to Austria but haven't heard anything yet. I've been spoiled by my Rugers.

Suggestions on how to sort?

Look at the tool marks in the face of the bolt if there are any. It may take a magnifying glass.

Then look at your fired brass. The fired primers will have an imprint of the larger tool marks and the tool marks will be as distinctive as a finger print.

You only have to match two of them.

If they're all the same case head...is it going to make that big of a difference?

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
Look at the tool marks in the face of the bolt if there are any. It may take a magnifying glass.

Then look at your fired brass. The fired primers will have an imprint of the larger tool marks and the tool marks will be as distinctive as a finger print.

You only have to match two of them.

Problem is, no fired cases that are separated by those rifles. I haven't touched them for several years. I have matched up the 6.55 bolt, I think, because it is essentially unfired. The last fired was the .280 and I think the dirtiest bolt head goes with that. I cannot believe I was that retarded. I never separated brass for them cause I had not specific reloading plans for them specifically (neck size).

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
If they're all the same case head...is it going to make that big of a difference?

Each barrel would have been set off a particular bolt for head space. I don't know how much variance there would be. What I mean is, the bolt from the .280 is not likely identical in overall length as the bolt for the 3006, even though they have identical bolt heads. I am sure that is why all manufacturers caution to always using the bolt to which the barrel was headspaced.

If Steyr says it makes not difference ( if they contact me) then, I'm in the clear.

For your comment, I think that is why Ruger etches serial numbers on bolts. I don't think one can just interchange bolts at will, or everyone would be doing it. Savage is another deal altogether but even at that, their barrels are matched to a bolt, even with the floating bolt head.

I blew up a handgun a long time ago through a bit of reloading ignorance and I now have a respect for safety. Fortunately, it was a Ruger P90 and built like a tank and disintegrated as designed, not taking off my hand. I keep it in the garage as a reminder that I am always ignorant of something.

I need to visit my gunsmith to pick yup some stuff in a week or two, so I'll have him sort out the stuff.

It make make no difference, but a go and a no-go gage check would be reassuring. At least the fourth is a short action.

I was attaching an adapter for a 10 rd mag and noticed the bolt mess. Anyway, the 30-06 and the 6.5x55 are going to be equipped with 10 rd mags. I may even get some really strong rubber bands and some duct tape and mount a bayonet!

Gotta get ready.

Perhaps you might measure the depth of the bolt lugs (back of lug to face of bolt) - if they're the same, I'd say you're ok to swap?

Unless you needed gauges yourself, you are wise to let a gunsmith sort it out for you.

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:
Unless you needed gauges yourself, you are wise to let a gunsmith sort it out for you.

Yep, I think so too. The bolt head assemblies each have a different letter/number on them,which may be meaningful if I get a code from Steyr.

quote:

Originally posted by 1 Shot Hunter:
Perhaps you might measure the depth of the bolt lugs (back of lug to face of bolt) - if they're the same, I'd say you're ok to swap?

That sounds reasonable. But, gages will tell the story, I guess.

Midway had Forster gages on sale, so I ordered a set for 0-6 and .280. Might come in handy for Savage barrel switches.

So, we'll sort em out,. As cheap as going to gunsmith and then waiting forever for results.

Thanks for the comments.

quote:

Originally posted by 1 Shot Hunter:
Perhaps you might measure the depth of the bolt lugs (back of lug to face of bolt) - if they're the same, I'd say you're ok to swap?

That's if the action was machined to the same size.
Head space is only .004" between bad and good. Best go with a gauge and do it right

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
That's if the action was machined to the same size.

Say what?

Add two layers of "scotch tape" to the case head
using new cases. You should be able to find
the bolt that just touches when you close
the bolt. For even more fun throw your car keys
into one pile.
Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by 1 Shot Hunter:

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
That's if the action was machined to the same size.

Say what?

Well everything is built to a tolerance and if the actions are not built to the same dimension (not the tolerance of the dimension)then measuring from the bolt face to the back of the lugs on the bolt will not work. I can absolutely guaranty that there is a few thousandths of variation between the three actions and depending on how they stack up the variations may or may not make a difference. But we don't know for sure so you MUST measure it some how.

If the engagement surface inside the action is .005" deeper or shallower then the other. Then swapping dimensionally identical bolts would not solve the problem. The bolt it self would be either set further ahead or deeper into the action.

Using a headspace gauge takes into consideration the position of the bolt face in relation to the receiver face and the locking lugs and engagement surface inside the action. Measuring any one of these dimensions will not give you the total picture.
This is also why there are no "true" "no gunsmith" drop in barrels for bolt action rifles. The barrel maker has no control over the dimensional variations of the action.
I realize I'm splitting hairs and being way more detailed then I need to be but this is a safety issue and any safety issue needs to be solved with a known degree of certainty.
Again Gauges are cheep and Kondor would only need to buy two of the three gauges anyway once you have two figured out the third is determined by elimination

kcstott - bingo!

There is always some "slop" built in and I think most folk other than Savage make the headspace adjustment by matching chamber (turning bbl) to a specific bolt. It is likely more chamber variations (?) than bolt variations. And, you are correct about the relative imprecision - a set of match gages is very expensive indeed and also consists of a whole bunch of gages. I have some TC Encores and they are a headspace jungle, as far a reloading and accuracy. That slop and adjusting for it with a correct shoulder "set" when resizing, is the difference between accurate - and not accurate. but, at least I don't get the "bolts" mixed up!

I appreciate my Rugers and their numbered bolts more and more! And, the floating Savage bolthead too. So, I'll soon have the gages and can rebarrel a Savage action myself to any of the 6 calibers with the 06 chamber length and also the .280 Rem with the other gage.

Which reminds me - Midway has Savage actions on sale is anyone is interested. They say "closeout", so I guess they are dropping them permanently.

And, you are correct about tolerances. I can almost tell the 6.5x55 bolt simply by ease of cycling, as one bolt is quite slick and the other 2 not so.

I still cannot adjust to knowing I did something that dumb. I was ill and stuffed everything in two safes, and the bolts must be out to fit everything in. Then nearly 2 years later, I notice when I feel good enough to shoot a little again.

hawkins - I am clear on the car keys. They are electronic, both cars are same except for door count and color. I am pretty hard of hearing and don't always here the horn beep, but I can see the lights flash when I click the lock or unlock button.

Along the same line, mounting wheels with directional tires at the wrong wheel position on another of my do-it-myself tirades. But, it was only one, so although I am old and slow, I got it done. I don't carry a battery powered impact wrench for nothin!

Thanks again!

Hey Kondor I've made my share of scrap in the machine shop No one is perfect And if they tell you otherwise They're perfectly full of BS and that's about it.
What do you mean "match gages"
Were these rifles rebarreled to a match chamber?
If these are factory barrels the a go no go set would work. And since forester or clymer don't make a 6.5mm SE gage that i can find. i'd get a go and no go for the .280 and the 30-06 Brownells has them for $25 each so $100 for the set. Ye it's a bit pricey for a mistake But I've made mistakes that cost me more. Ya I'd be pissed too But you have to fix the problem some how. Sucks when you cost yourself money for no reason I know I've been there.

kcstott


The Forster Match grade set , say in .308, consists of 11 gages and they are in .001 " increments for exact chamber measurement. Not needed for the typical general purpose rifle.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eprod...ct?saleitemid=561125

These Steyrs don't have match chambers but a set of match gages might be useful for someone that was setting up barrels, say someone that used Savage actions because the barrel can easily be switched. The thing with the Steyrs is that the barrels are sealed to the receiver by a proprietary process and few know how to successfully replace them or, in a case of a mismatched bolt, set the headspace. The barrels are threaded but sealed with some kind of super glue and the Austrians know how but few others. One chap said he called them and asked them what would someone do when a barrel was shot out and needed replacement. He said they laughed at him and that would not happen. The Savage thing is very appealing to me so I thought of the match gages. The $200 bucks they cost was not appealing.

I got them when they were reasonable and they are accurate. I like the design, the fit - I think it a good system. I don't particularly like the Scout rifle as the concept is a bit askew, I think. But, that is me. Generally speaking, the Steyr appeals to a minority of riflemen, as most will buy something else more familiar in the same price range. The ejection port is not large, with the receiver top not cut away, so they minimize dirt/debris access. Also, the bolts are grooved to prevent icing when wet. There is no bayonet lug, however. And the synthetic stock would not crush a skull.

CDNN Investments still has some Steyrs and parts from the first imports, before the firm moved. I just got 2 hi-cap mag adapters from them and some 10 rd mags.

When the gages get here, I'll remove the firing pin assembly as I check headspace, and also be doing the maintenance in the bolt that should have been done earlier. The ejector will stay in place. I no longer chase flying parts having learned on a couple Para .40s as the end cap for the recoil rod/spring always, and I mean always, shot into space. I got rid of that pair because I always had to get a friend to reassemble them for me and he would laugh at me, which, I admit, was justified.

You don't need a set of gauges to check for, or, set headspace for the majority of cartridges. All you need is a no go gauge, and a little knowledge in how to use it. Setting headspace with a Savage barrel is a breeze using either a no go gauge, or, a standard factory case.

quote:

Originally posted by kondor:
kcstott


.

The thing with the Steyrs is that the barrels are sealed to the receiver by a proprietary process and few know how to successfully replace them or, in a case of a mismatched bolt, set the headspace. The barrels are threaded but sealed with some kind of super glue and the Austrians know how but few others. One chap said he called them and asked them what would someone do when a barrel was shot out and needed replacement. He said they laughed at him and that would not happen. The Savage thing is very appealing to me so I thought of the match gages. The $200 bucks they cost was not appealing.

The sealant is probably something like Loktite green retaining compound. It's for bearings and other press fits but will also work on threads just be prepared for the parts to become one. Unless you want to add heat to about 350 degrees F those parts will never come apart.
I like the design of the barrel system Makes drop in barrel a reality.