I wondered why trigger safeties are so unpopular in the US (it seems most people junk their Charles Daly safeties for bolt safeties)

Thus far I have much prefered trigger safeties for the ability to silently slip from safe to fire with my thumb when a buck is staring at me. This is something I have not been able to replicate with a model 70 style safety.

Is it possible to use a model 70 style safety noislessly while keeping the hand on the pistol grip?

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
Is it possible to use a model 70 style safety noislessly while keeping the hand on the pistol grip?

I doubt it! I prefer the top-tang type, as on the Ruger No. 1, and the Model 77's, before they "IMPROVED" them!

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
Thus far I have much prefered trigger safeties for the ability to silently slip from safe to fire with my thumb when a buck is staring at me. This is something I have not been able to replicate with a model 70 style safety.

Is it possible to use a model 70 style safety noislessly while keeping the hand on the pistol grip?

Noise level (or lack of) is certainly one aspect of judging the practicality of a safety. To slip off the normal M70 safety quietly, you really need to hang onto it with both thumb and forefinger. So from that point of view, the side (trigger) safety is preferable.

BUT, three position (and other) safeties are a lot more positive than a side safety. When using a Sako in the field, I always worry about the safety coming off inadvertently. On top of that, a safety that locks the firing pin, is normally considered safer than a safety blocking only the trigger. The most positive safety I know of is the Mauser wing safety, little chance of that coming off inadvertently, but use that with a scope mounted...

To me, the middle position of the M70 or Mauser safeties is an advantage, but not hugely so. It is nice to be able to unload with your rifle on safe, but it is also possible to live with a 2 position safety.

The safest of all "safeties" - i.e. the Blaser cocking mechanisms - are about as positive and safe as you can get a safety, but they can't really be described as quiet in the field.

For a really positive, silent safety, which locks the firing pin, try a Weatherby MkV. Nice safety.

- mike

I can't conceive of a situation (other than a dangerous game type situation where you have absolutely no time whatsoever) where there isn't enough time to work a Model 70 type safety. I have still hunted, stand hunted, and glass and stock hunted, and have never ever felt hampered by a Model 70 type safety, and I don't just flip them off, but rather take the time to lower them so the don't make noise. It takes but one or two seconds at the most.

1894mk2:

quote:

Is it possible to use a model 70 style safety noislessly while keeping the hand on the pistol grip?

Not unless you have fingers like ET!

You have just touch on a pet peeve of mine..I find neither bolt or side mounted safeties easy to operate which out breaking your shooting grip on the stock..And why are side safeties on the right hand of the action for right handed people? They would be much easier and more natural to operate on the left although a bit further back..

Ideally, I think a tang safety is the answer, but one that blocks the firing pin as well as the sear...

Mike,

With regards the Sako safeties, I have an older M591 and although its a side mounted unit, I am sure it blocks the firing pin??? When in the "on" position I am sure a small plunger is raised from the action into a reccess in the bolt effectively locking the firing pin??

Regards,

Pete

quote:

Originally posted by Pete E:
Mike,

With regards the Sako safeties, I have an older M591 and although its a side mounted unit, I am sure it blocks the firing pin??? When in the "on" position I am sure a small plunger is raised from the action into a reccess in the bolt effectively locking the firing pin??

Regards,

Pete

Pete, I'm definitely not going to stick out my neck and claim you are wrong. I have only handled a L591 Sako action once, and I just can't remember whether the safety was anything but a trigger safety??

My modest Sako collection contains an L461, an A1 and 2 AVs, all of them have trigger mounted safeties.

I really like the Sako actions, but I don't particular like the safeties. That has never stopped me from going hunting with them, though...

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
I can't conceive of a situation (other than a dangerous game type situation where you have absolutely no time whatsoever) where there isn't enough time to work a Model 70 type safety. I have still hunted, stand hunted, and glass and stock hunted, and have never ever felt hampered by a Model 70 type safety, and I don't just flip them off, but rather take the time to lower them so the don't make noise. It takes but one or two seconds at the most.

Whereas I find it makes a considerable difference.... just one less thing to worry about when you are under pressure. Deer looking at you from 15yards away etc....

I had a Sako AV go off on me once- I had the rifle on a sling over my left shoulder- heard a small "click" reached behind me to check the safety- hit the trigger instead- my bad- but to this day I have hard time hunting with that particular rifle- and that was maybe 12 years ago. I like the model 70 safety- you know where it is at all times.

john

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
... Deer looking at you from 15yards away etc....

Under those specific conditions, unless you are draped with a Ghillie Suit, I'd say there is no Safety made that the Deer would not detect the movement of going from "ON to OFF", including Tang Safetys. I've had them on original M77s and could see where a person thinks they might get away with it, but you just can't make a movement with a Deer at 15yds looking directly at you.

You just have to be patient and wait until the Deer turns it's head so you can not see the Pupil of it's eye. Then pinch the Safety, ease it off, and get on with the shot.

I was going to recommend trying a Marlin Lever Action for those conditions until I pulled one from the SAFE and handled it. The cross-bolt Safety is mounted just above the Trigger Finger. But, even with it, the odds are with the Deer seeing the movement.

Good distance for a Revolver, but cocking it with the Deer looking directly at you isn't a good option either.

I'd wait and it wouldn't matter what firearm I had with me.

Mike,

I've just pulled my Sako out to take a closer look. As we both thought, the safety catch is mounted on the righthand side of the action rather than on the bolt as per a Ruger or Winchester...
As I suspected, when in the "safe" position, it raises a "stud" or "plunger" about 5mm in diameter..It looks as if this stud goes into the underneath of the bolt somehow...When I checked the bottom of the bolt there is no reciever/hole as such, but there is a "lug" underneath the rear of the bolt and I am guessing this comes forward with the firing pin..It looks as if when the stud is in the up (safety on) position it blocks lug on the bolt going forward...Whether the safety acts on anything else within the trigger, I don''t know...

Perhaps somebody with a bit more knowledge of Sako's and or gunsmithing might comment as this is just speculation on my behalf..

It would also be interesting to know if Sako changed the design on the newer 75 model, and if so, whether they are better or worse for it...

Regards,

Pete

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
... Deer looking at you from 15yards away etc....

Under those specific conditions, unless you are draped with a Ghillie Suit, I'd say there is no Safety made that the Deer would not detect the movement of going from "ON to OFF", including Tang Safetys. I've had them on original M77s and could see where a person thinks they might get away with it, but you just can't make a movement with a Deer at 15yds looking directly at you.

You just have to be patient and wait until the Deer turns it's head so you can not see the Pupil of it's eye. Then pinch the Safety, ease it off, and get on with the shot.

I was going to recommend trying a Marlin Lever Action for those conditions until I pulled one from the SAFE and handled it. The cross-bolt Safety is mounted just above the Trigger Finger. But, even with it, the odds are with the Deer seeing the movement.

Good distance for a Revolver, but cocking it with the Deer looking directly at you isn't a good option either.

I'd wait and it wouldn't matter what firearm I had with me.

Hot Core - it would be quite normal for a UK roe stalker to be shooting at 200yards in the fields in the early morning and then at 30yards (or closer on occasion) after the first couple of hours light when the deer move into the woodland.

A standard bolt 243 does it all. A side safety is easier to operate, allowing me to concentrate on the game.

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
...Hot Core - it would be quite normal for a UK roe stalker to be shooting at 200yards in the fields in the early morning and then at 30yards (or closer on occasion) after the first couple of hours light when the deer move into the woodland.

A standard bolt 243 does it all. A side safety is easier to operate, allowing me to concentrate on the game.

Sounds like some of the places I hunt, except the distance can be a bit longer.

I understand your choice of the Tang or Slide Safety. I've no argument with them at all.

What bullet do you normally use?

Good hunting and clean 1-shot kills.

Hot Core,

I've shot a lot of 6mm 90gr BTs and 6.5mm 100gr BTs but find myself becoming very keen on the light plane jane non interlock hornady sp in various calibres (6mm 70gr, 6.5mm 100gr and 7mm 120gr). The 6.5 one is especialy good!