I have gathered most of the components to build a 404 Jeffrey on a standard size M98 Mauser action (1909 Argentine made by DWM). So far I have:

M98 Action
NECG steel trigger
NECG 3 pos. safety
Blackburn bottom metal (14x)
Blackburn follower
Lothar Walther barrel (on order)

My gunsmith's schedule should free up by the time the barrel arrives and I will then drop off all of the parts with him. He will add the quarter rib, rear sight, front sight, etc. after he gets the barrel installed.

My question is what kind of work needs to be done to the action to get it to fit and feed the 404 Jeffrey round?

For fun, I placed the Blackburn bottom metal on the action and with the floorplate open and looking up from the bottom, it looks like a decent amount of metal will have to be removed from the front of the action to get it to feed.

Does this weaken the action significantly?

After removing this much metal, should the action then be heat treated?

Any particular problems to look out for?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Tim

Tim

I certainly am no Smith, so don't take what I say with any grain of salt. That said, I too have looked at this very same thing. I am sitting here looking at a .404 Jeff case and a pristine 09 action. And although I am sure it has been done before, it is my considered opinion that there are just better actions to build a .404 Jeff on than an 09 argentine.

For one thing, it will take a considerable amount of machine work to get the guide rails properly adjusted in order for that case to feed properly. YOu will probably also have to machine away some of the rear bride where the clip slot is in order to make sure that the case extracts correctly. You will obviously have to open the bolt face and redo the extractor. As you mentioned, you will have to take some metal off the bottom of the receiver.

No only that, but 09 recoil lugs are quite shallow. I think I would want more recoil lug than what is there, and I suppose you could weld something on.

I have had many 09s rockwell tested. Most of them test in the high teens on the c scale. I am sure that would be no problem to start out with, but on a big case like that .404 jeff you might later on start to see some lug recess setback unless you have the receiver re casehardened. (you cannot just walk into any heat treat place and tell them to reharden your receiver. it must be done by somebody who knows what they are doing)

In my mind, it would be best to stick with a case length no longer than the winchester belted mags in the 09, such as a .338 win mag., and leave other longer actions for the .404 jeff. Why not tale a look at the Montana PH Action, if you can wait awhile. or one of the big CZ actions. Or look around for a true Mag Mauser action.

Blue

My Cogswell & Harrison .404 is based on a standard military '98 action. The front locking-lug abutment (aka the feedramp) has been reduced in length by a noticeable amount, and the bolt-release/ejector assembly has been shortened. I believe the back wall of the magazine has also been pushed back.

The rifle functions absolutely flawlessly, and has digested MANY heavy handloads (heavier than factory loads) without any problems at all.

However, in spite of this performance, I'd agree that there are better actions to use for a .404 in today's world. Almost any action configured for full-length H&H cartridges should be relatively easy to adapt for the .404, and their bolt faces will at most need only a few thousandths removed.

Regards from BruceB (aka Bren Mk1)

This is a job I am very familiar with. Most, if not all, of the famous British makers used the standard Mauser for the 404 at one time or another. There is a lot of work to do, if your going to do it right. You should make a "thrust plug" and screw it into the receiver to put pressure on the bolt face, and then lap the lugs back until the 3rd lug bears. That will take care of any problems with strength. A Mauser with all 3 lugs bearing is 2X as strong as an un-modified one, so cutting the lower abutment away some is not going to hurt it any, especially if Your using the loads that the Germans and the English used. Despite their power, they are low pressure loads. The 404 runs the same pressure as a 303 Brit.
Selbys famous 416 was made on a standard Mauser by Rigby.

If you folks need some advice on a point by point basis, send me a PM and we'll talk. I have done quite a few of these in 404 and 416, and there is not problem if You know what to do, and if Your not a "Weatherby idiot" in your loads.

SZ

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and input.

Buchsenschmeid, I may take you up on your offer to provide advice as my project gets further down the road. Thanks.

Tim

Shumba, put a secondary recoil lug under the barrel midway in the forearm. I was part of a team that built the following one. It was on a FN Commercial 98. Blackburn bottom metal. The metalsmith was Steve Nelson from Oregon.

SWEEEEET !

THAT is what a bigbore rifle should look like!!! It's beautiful, absolutely gorgeous!!!

Very nice.

Chic, I want one.

yeah, WOW!!!

jeffe

Chuckwagon,

Here is a closeup showing the checkering a bit better. Sorry about the size and having to scroll. It is the only one I have on a site that will show it well. Bear with the scrolling.

Chic,

That is exactly what I hope my project turns out to look like.

I plan on using the same gunsmith that Mark "N'gagi" Jackson is using to build his .458 Win Mag on a mauser action. I heard that you are putting the final touches on Mark's rifle and that it should be ready for a August 2004 buffalo/plainsgame trip in Zim.

Tim

Man that is a BEAUTY ! I can feel my wallet shrinking Seriously that is exacly what I am after with out the engraving. What grade of wood is that ?

Dang, that is beautiful!

Chuck

Without the engraving?

What kind of a sick person are you?

Kidding, of course!

Their is a fine line bewteen sleepin in a comfy bed Vs on the couch ! That line is some where between with and without engraving

Chic - Gorgeous rifle! Are the stock dimensions published anywhere??!

I know of several .404 Jeffery rifles that were built on 1909 Argentine actions, and the actions of these rifles were extensively modified. The loading ports were open up, as were the feed rails and bolt face. The extractors were modified and properly gaped for the rim of the make of brass to be employed, and were further modified to close on a chambered cartridge. Receiver faces were squared and all surfaces made true. Lug seats were re-machined and then laped to full contact.

In addition, these actions were re-hardened (in my book, bedrock in its importance), and new magazine boxes and followers that are of the correct dimensions for the .404 Jeffery cartridge replaced the original 7.65 Argentine box were obtained and fitted. Don't try to make the original 7.65 box work with .404 cartridges!

The Blackburn bottom metal you're going with is great, as is your Model 70-type safety.

I would also suggest a Blackburn trigger.........

AD

Shumba,
I am going to be checkering Mark's stock in the very near future. I spoke to him on the phone and he is going to allow me to reshape the swivel base pedestal that GAG cut on the stock. It looks like a landing pad for a helicopter ..... only it is bigger. Sorry Mark, couldn't help it. And I could not help reshaping it. I might just get real evil and wet sand a portion for him with detailed instructions on how to do the rest. Kind of like waxing a part of someones car hood.

Chuckwagon, it is exhibiton English Walnut, bought green in 1994.

Alan

having said all of that (much of what I said) let me ask you this. If you were going to have a .404 Jeff made up, would you use a 1909 Argentine Action???

Blue

Blue, all things considered, I'd likely order a modern Mauser action from Granite Mountain Arms. I believe in modern steels and modern heat-treating. I'd ask them to build the entire action around the .404 Jeffery cartridge, and I'd order it with the thumb notch, and as a double square bridge to work with Smithson's detachable rings that Chic was telling us about. A tough foundation to beat in my opinion.

Cost is higher going in, of course, but I think worth it. When I think of the hours and hours of work and seemingly endless proceedures Dave Miller would tell me about putting into 1909s for .404s, etc., it doesn't make the price of one of these new actions seem so bad after all.

AD

Buchsenschmeid, please check your PM

Shumba

Shumba

Did you have that 404 Jeff built on that Mauser action? If so, how did it turn out for you?

Blue

I could only wish that the process could go that fast.

I am in the very beginning stages of what I think can be a long process.

I will be sure to post my progress.

Thanks.

Tim

I,m not sure that all posters here realize that the 404 case is shorter than a 375 H&H, so why not use a good 1909 action, open it in the rear and do the required rail work to accomodate the bottom metal from Blackburn or whoever..Same for the M-70 Win...Lots of Mausers and M-70 out there in 375, 416 Rem and they are not questioned, so the shorter 404 should not be suspect.

Why add the bulk and weight of a big action, if one wants that big bulky action then use a 416 Rigby or 505 Gibbs, at least that is my opine...

BTW Rigby made a few 416 Rigbys on a std. Mod. 98 actions, Paul Zorn whom I book for in Zimbabwe has one of those rare guns and has been shooting it for years...It is a sweet gun and certainly has been working for a long time...speaks well for a Mauser action...

I would agree with Ray in regards to the 404 in a standard 98.

Doesn't Granite Arms make different action sizes?

A few of the pre-64 M70's have been built for the 416 as well. I've not seen one, but wish I had.
Can't be much room left after the conversion. But, done is done.

Roger,
Granite Mtn Arms builds them in a number of sizes, from the kurtz to the 5 pound Wells monstrosity. The #17 ACCG rifle was built on a Commercial FN 98.

If you do decide to build your .404 on a standard Mauser action, I don't think you'll have too many worries...

My first .404 was made on a standard Mauser 98 action, and was built by Jeffrey. That's good enough for me.

AC