OK, I'm going to show some ignorance here, but I have a question. Several years ago I was trying to put together a .458 Win Mag Argentine mauser for myself. I bought the Blackburn bottom metal for it and machined out the bottom of the action for the follower. Reworked the bolt face and tried to get the thing to feed the round nose .458 cartridges by taking metal off the feed rails and feed ramp. It never worked, not even close, and I ended up trashing the action in the process. So the other day I was working on a Turkish action for a customer and it suddenly hit me that the feed rails on the Turkish and Argentine mausers are totally different, not even close! The Argentine in fact has a reverse taper to the rails, smaller in the back than in the front. How can two actions made to feed similar cases be so different? By the way, I tried the .458 cartridges in the Turkish and they acted like they wanted to feed, although it was .257 Roberts, it looked like the .458 was headed straight into the chamber.

I have never seen another Mauser like that. There is more than one way to "skin a cat" I guess. I converted one to 7x57 with no mods. Feeds like butter. In fact, it feeds anything in the Mauser military family and the 30-06 family the same way (as long as it fits in the box). We've got a Peruvian at the shop. I'm gonna check it tomorrow.

Yes what you describe is true. .547 front and .514 rear on the 09, and reversed in most others. I have every make of Mauser here. come over and see some.
However, that is not why you couldn't get it to feed; you have to envision how the rounds need to do two things; stack in the magazine, and rise and go forward and go under the extractor the process. The rails are just part of that equation; the other is the width of the inside of them. Larger in the front is not a bad thing and the 458 could have worked with some magic; I can't tell you how to do it. Except with a ball end mill and remove everything that prevents the case from doing what you want it to. Easy.
Arg are 7.65; Turks are 8mm.
Most small rounds and some big ones need no alteration at all, but things like the 458, need a lot of work due to the straight shape of it.

had an arsenal redone Peruvian in 30-06, pretty sure the feed rails were untouched. even the stock was lightly stamped 30 Cal.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
I have never seen another Mauser like that. There is more than one way to "skin a cat" I guess. I converted one to 7x57 with no mods. Feeds like butter. In fact, it feeds anything in the Mauser military family and the 30-06 family the same way (as long as it fits in the box). We've got a Peruvian at the shop. I'm gonna check it tomorrow.

I once had Jack Belk do a 375h&h on an FN 98 type action. The rails are slightly tapered towards the front. It has Blackburn bottom metal and feeds great.

A few years later I had Dennis Olson do a 458 Lott on a VZ24. I was kinda surprised when I got it back and saw that the rails were left very narrow in the back, but undercut quite a bit. But then, about half way up towards the feed ramp the rails widened out a lot. It had a PME bottom metal unit(loved those units! Jim Wisner set the bar high.)

Anyway, when the Lott cartridge was in the box the rails held it very securely. As the bolt pushed the he cartridge forward, once the belt cleared the narrow portion of the rails it would pop up under the extractor(It had a PME bottom metal unit(loved those units! Jim Wisner set the bar high.) it fed beautifully.

I don’t recall seeing rails done like that before or since, but it was slick.

If memory serves me this action came off a 30-06 that had a left hand stock on it, not a very good one either. As for the rails, I guess there's more than one way to skin a cat as Bobster said. DPCD where is "over here" I'm in NC. Unfortunately I don't know of a single person that I can go to around here to gain more knowledge on this.

NE Illinois. Just up the road from NC.
If your 09 was a military barrel 30-06, then it was rechambered by Interarms from 7.65. Those are the ones most likely to set back.
JB: Having the rails wider in the front, especially for a belted mag, is what you need to do to get them to feed. But the VZ24 did not start off that way; those have the rails wider at the rear, originally.
When you think about it, and look at a detachable mag, for example, you see that only the rear lips hold the cartridge; in the front there are no lips. Same principle. Have to have room for the cartridge, especially fat ones, to rise. You can cut all the lip off the front half of the receiver if you want; just your bolt lugs won't be supported any more and will bind. Do not ask me now I know this.
It's a black art, making them feed for things they were not originally designed to do. I know, there are diagrams and formulas out there for stacking, etc; I do not use them.
I make them feed like the Pinball Wizard.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
JB: Having the rails wider in the front, especially for a belted mag, is what you need to do to get them to feed. But the VZ24 did not start off that way; those have the rails wider at the rear, originally.
When you think about it, and look at a detachable mag, for example,

Yep, the feed rails on the converted VZ24 reminded me of a Winchester M88 more than any Mauser that I had seen.

Checked the '09 Peruvian and it has the same rails as an 8 x 57.

quote:

Originally posted by richj:
had an arsenal redone Peruvian in 30-06, pretty sure the feed rails were untouched. even the stock was lightly stamped 30 Cal.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
I have never seen another Mauser like that. There is more than one way to "skin a cat" I guess. I converted one to 7x57 with no mods. Feeds like butter. In fact, it feeds anything in the Mauser military family and the 30-06 family the same way (as long as it fits in the box). We've got a Peruvian at the shop. I'm gonna check it tomorrow.

Blair,
Yeah, I know who you are but you might not know me on here....
Tim Carriker down in Seagrove might be they guy closest to you that could make it work. If not, Michael Merker up here in Hendersonville could make it happen. I've had several magnums built on Mausers and never had a feeding problem. The guys that did the work for me are no longer around. Tell Ronnie hello for me.

OK, you got me. Send me a PM and let me know who I'm talking to (Tim, Thomas, guess?) Anyway, I think I'm going to take the remaining Argentine and make a .257 Roberts with it. That would be a great all around caliber and no feeding issues. Besides, I just got the right shoulder replaced 2 months ago and the idea of a .458 just doesn't appeal to me anymore . I've got several nice English and Claro walnut blanks I need to use up before I completely retire.

If you look at the geometry, a belted mag needs a mag box that is 1" wide at the back. You are going to struggle if you do not use a wider mag box. It's also necessary, I have found, to take material off the ridge on the follower to get the last ctg to feed. Very little off the sharp part of the feed lips. But quite a bit off the roots (underside) of the feed lips. More on one side than the other. The feed ramp and opening needs to be a lot wider and lower. I use a dremel not a mill, except for the rear corners of the action opening which takes a small dia end mill.

Very informative! Made me measure everything mauser I have.

Not to hijack this thread, but while on the subject I'm working on SR mausers right now. I've barreled two Mexican 1910's, one in .243, the other .308 and the un-barreled action I'm thinking .358. Any tips on feeding modifications would be very much appreciated. All goog tells me is to not shoot a SR mauser in .308. I've already hashed a '93 Turk (8x57 conversion) that I thought would drop the scales from mine eyes because I could see it was modified quite a bit from a 1916 7x57; it didn't. It's a trash action that has 10 thousandths setback and someone savaged it with a belt sander.

Turkish/Ottoman Mausers are four different rifles 1887,1890, 1893, 1903