Have just received my barrelled action. So far I like, although the bolt handle looked a little short at first glance. I think it will work though.

Details: L-W barrel (the lighter, .650 muzzle contour), Czech 98/22 action, Argentine floorplate, NECG masterpiece front and rear sights, barrel band for swivel. I have already posted pics of the stock -- once I get the barrel channel to full depth, I will post pics of the whole thing.

I can't wait to try it -- thanks Ray for popularizing the 9.3x62. And thanks Waxman for the loaded ammo my gunsmith used for testing (same to Harry for your offer too).

Todd

Todd,

Don't keep us in suspense, get that sucker finished and post some pics .

Jim

Still a looong way from done, but here's a few pics:

Todd...that dog looks like it will hunt!
Hope you enjoy yours as well as the rest of us do.
Nice looking rifle. Keep us posted.

Todd,

Looks great! Just gotta watch those toes the next time you take pictures

Jack's 98% done with mine, hopefully I'll have it soon and we can get out to burn some powder.

Best,
Joe

So for someone like me who's not familiar with your project, who has done the work (wood and metal)?

By the way it looks great!

Todd,
It is looking really nice, I love that stick of wood you used, well laid out...I'd like to see a close up of that bolt, it doesn't appear quit right to me either and its is such an inexpensive fix I wouldn't let it go on such a nice rifle....

Great looking rifle!

Todd,

You are very talented. Great looking rifle and I won't hound your ass for closer pictures like some other insecure weasels on this board because I think it looks great! I would love have that rifle in my own rack. I have a dumb question for you. Is that going to be a strictly open sight sporter? Or will it eventually sport a scope?

Congrats, Mike

[ 04-17-2003, 07:17: Message edited by: alvinmack5 ]

Todd, that looks fantastic. You are doing exceptional work. Isn't this site a great place, you get loads to test fire from people you have never met. Gotta love it.

I'm not sure if that was directed at me or Ray or both of us, but in any case I don't get it. Wanting to admire someone else's rifle makes you an insecure weasel?

Best,
Joe

Nice rifle,

and great calibre !!

Todd---

Looking GOOD! Are you going to be nervous drilling the hole for the rear sling mount??

The difference in building guns is that you can screw up just as bad in the last five minutes as the first. It's not like a house where you can just fix the wrong board.

Excercise for the heart.

Count me amoung the insecure weasels that would like to see more pictures.

[ 04-17-2003, 18:35: Message edited by: JBelk ]

Yeah, me neither, I consider it out of line..Constructive suggestions are never out of line if you ask me and I'm sure in my mind that Todd appreciated it.

I got a personal email form him stating it was not directed at me but I'm damned if I can figure who else it could be directed at.

Ray I doubt that you are the only insecure weasel on here. LOL. Sorry you lead with your chin on that one and with my wise ass demeanor it couldn't be helped.

Chic,
The more guns I build the insecruer I gets!! The last minute decisions to install cross bolts is the scary one, one gets real weasely or squirrely, whichever suits the case....

Ray, just think of all those big bores out there with your name one them as time bombs, ticking away. That will make you sleep better, lol. And remember, being paranoid does not mean they are not out to get you after all.

Oh great Chic, now I can sleep better, time bombs??? you're right ya know!! and that my friend is why I am in the booking business, the gun business wasn't exciting enough!!

To answer a couple of questions:

The wood is English walnut 'near exhibition' with a little added character (read "blemished") in the form of a small knot with tiny center hole in the bottom of the forearm. It filled in quite nicely with epoxy dyed black. It's from Henry Pohl at Great American Gunstocks, in their British express rifle pattern. I think I will have to lower the comb a bit, as the cocking piece grazes it, somewhat of a bummer as I really like it's lines right now. The whole rifle is really light and swings nicely, I think I could probably wingshoot better with it than my SXS shotgun. It already has a Dakota skeleton grip cap, and will eventually get the pad covered with black leather, and an inletted rear swivel base.

The action is from one of the now-common 98/22 rifles, and was in really nice shape. Hinged triggerguard / mag box. Lightweight profile Lothar Walther barrel. NECG express-style adjustable rear sight, and NECG banded ramp front sight. Talley barrel band swivel, Talley bases, and Talley bolt handle.

My 'smith, Dave Carver of IT&D Custom, did the headspacing and bolt, and I did the stock work, starting with the semi-inlet blank. RE: the bolt, Dave usually chucks the stub up in his lathe, and extends the shank as long as he can -- I'm not sure if he did it this time. I think the problem is that Talley shanks are a little on the short side -- it would probably give the 'smith a little more room to work if they were 1/4" longer. I'll probably live with it for a while, as it doesn't really affect operation, until I can afford one of the beautiful engraved numbers such as Jack and Scrollcutter are doing. Ditto the checkering.

Once I get it blued and all, I'll post some final pics.

OH and re: the scope, it will have one. Any suggestions? I have a VariX-I 3x9 still in the box, but am worried it might be too much scope. Perhaps a 2-7x33? Ideally I'd like a 1.5-5, but don't want to spend that much right now.

Todd

Todd,
Look around for a nice 1.5x5 used Leupold, they are bargins and the warranty is still good no matter what...I have picked up a couple like new for $200 to $225. Gunlist is a good place or a gunshow...

I love the stock on your rifle Todd. I have a pretty vz24 that will clean up nicely. I am torn between which to chamber it in the .458WM or 9.3x64mm. The 9.3 is a real power house for its size, but not a bige bore. Damn discisions.

Kristofer

[ 04-18-2003, 04:55: Message edited by: KBGuns ]

Todd, How did you attach the barrel band and band front sight? -Fred

Todd, one more question, what is the barrel length? -Fred

Fred,

That is a 23.6" barrel. I attach the front sight bases by first sizing the band with a hammer, and get it placed where you want it and lined up correctly. Then, remove the set screw, chuck up a drill bit (that just fits in the set screw hole and spin it in the hole so that the flat end of the drill bit makes a mark on the barrel in that spot. Then I drill a slightly oversized, 1/8" deep recess there for the set screw to set into. The front sight band and the swivel band are both attached (or will be) with acraglass dyed black. Talley bands can be sized with a hammer just like the masterpiece front sights -- bands like the London Guns one have to be sized by removing material from inside the band. As long as you do a careful job sizing, there is practically no gap to see, and I haven't had one come loose yet. Do the final installation AFTER bluing, and use a little acetone on a rag to clean off any epoxy that oozes out.

Good luck,
Todd

BTW I remember you were looking for headspace gauges for 9.3x62 -- I finally located them for rent at White Rock Tool & Tie, $38 including shipping both ways (1 month rental).

KBG-
I would go for the 9.3x64 just for the coolness factor.

Beautiful rifle!

Good hunting.

Todd, thanks much. Can I pick your brain some more? What do you mean by sizing the band with a hammer?

Thanks for the headspace gauge info, where is White Rock located? -Fred

Todd,
Nice work!

Makes me want to get my 9.3x64 Br moving forward - got a Global Trading M98 action, 120 pieces of RWS brass, no just need the rest . What does your rifle weigh in at? I was looking at same barrel for the 9.3x64 but wondering if a tad heavier would be better. Another candiate for Ray's H&H L-W profile

Was this a stock that you picked up off the GA website? Like that classic forend tip.

Regards
Jeff P

nice rifle

Todd,
it looks FANTASTIC!!!, that, and your 416, you have an excellent to rifle... or with your 458, a nice heavy!!!

I am jealous
jeffe

Fresh from the final boiling & carding, last night:

Todd,

Looks really great! You should be proud of that! Now all you need is some checkering and your finished!

Yes, umm, checkering. That would be the reason the skeleton grip cap is getting an ebony inlay -- I ATTEMPTED to checker the walnut part.

I would love to say I did this whole rifle except for the headspacing and welding on the bolt handle, but I think I like it too much to try checkering it myself!

Future plans: 1) Nitre bluing of the bolt stop spring, extractor, pins, various action screws, grip cap screws.
2) Color case hardening of the bolt stop housing, grip cap, levers from the Talley rings, and the swivel stud inletted in the stock.
3) Recoil pad covered with black leather.
4) Simple checkering design, to provide gripping surface without hiding the wood.
5) Engraved panel on the bolt knob.

Best,
Todd

[ 04-25-2003, 02:04: Message edited by: Todd Getzen ]

Hello Todd. Can you describe the process of sizing the bands with a hammer please? Thanks.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Todd Getzen:
Fred,

That is a 23.6" barrel. I attach the front sight bases by first sizing the band with a hammer, and get it placed where you want it and lined up correctly. Then, remove the set screw, chuck up a drill bit (that just fits in the set screw hole and spin it in the hole so that the flat end of the drill bit makes a mark on the barrel in that spot. Then I drill a slightly oversized, 1/8" deep recess there for the set screw to set into. The front sight band and the swivel band are both attached (or will be) with acraglass dyed black. Talley bands can be sized with a hammer just like the masterpiece front sights -- bands like the London Guns one have to be sized by removing material from inside the band. As long as you do a careful job sizing, there is practically no gap to see, and I haven't had one come loose yet. Do the final installation AFTER bluing, and use a little acetone on a rag to clean off any epoxy that oozes out.

Good luck,
Todd

BTW I remember you were looking for headspace gauges for 9.3x62 -- I finally located them for rent at White Rock Tool & Tie, $38 including shipping both ways (1 month rental).

KBG-
I would go for the 9.3x64 just for the coolness factor.

---

Fred,

Sorry, I missed that.

Ideally you would start with a barrel band that will fit at least part way (maybe 1/3 or 1/2) onto the barrel -- that for a front sight band; a swivel band should of course be able to fit all the way on, or it's way too small. When sizing, make sure you don't hit the part of the band that is NOT supported by barrel underneath.

Then get yourself a ball peen or similar hammer, with a slightly convex / nearly flat face. It wouldn't hurt to polish the face, since the smoother the face is, the smoother your band will be and the less work to file it flat again.

Then expand the band by rapping it with smooth, even blows, trying not to let the hammer bounce and restrike. You want to go very gently around the edge of the band, since you can oversize there and end up with a gap. You also want to get as close as possible to thicker parts of the band, like where the swivel attachment or sight ramp come up, but not too close -- if you make a big dent (with the edge of the hammer) in those areas, it's a lot of work to smooth - then you have to go to the other side and remove the same amount so it's symmetric. Sometimes I use a 3" piece of 3/8" steel round stock, which I tapered slightly (and broke the sharp edges), to size the band in the tight spots.

I use a wide board and a hammer, to tap the sight band back onto the barrel until it becomes tight, then size the band with the hammer until I can remove it again by hand (twisting/pulling) . Keep repeating the cycle, drive it back, size it loose, until you get it where you want on the barrel. Then, size VERY GENTLY AND SLOWLY, and EVENLY all the way around, until it will just come loose.

Then use a fine file, and emery cloth backed with something hard, to remove the hammer marks from the band. I use Herter's Belgium Blue from Brownells, and blue all the small parts and the barrelled receiver separately, then use acraglass gel dyed black to attach them. That way you avoid red rust under the bands, etc.

If your band won't fit far enough onto the barrel to start with, but you still want to use it, you can start sizing with another barrel that is smaller. I use an old M-98 barrel for that -- although I have never damaged a good barrel by accidentally striking it, so I wouldn't worry about that.

Hope that helps,
Todd

Edited: And I might add, to my previous post, that the drill bit should be chucked up BACKWARDS -- you don't want any flutes in your set screw hole chewing up the threads. The backwards drill bit trick is very useful -- great way to mark the back of a bolt for the locking relief cut when using PME 3 pos. safeties too.

[ 04-27-2003, 16:39: Message edited by: Todd Getzen ]

For the reamer:

White Rock Tool & Die (816)454-0478

They can be hard to reach -- try early, and keep calling. They need to buy Lott reamers though!

Todd

Pfeifer,

I considered the heavier contour, but compared it to my Adams & Bennet F44 (.725 muzzle IIRC) and decided it looked too heavy for a 9.3. That A&B 416 bbl is a hefty chunk of steel -- although granted the L-W profile is probably more graceful.

The lighter contour looks nice with a slim stock, and made up into a well-balanced rifle that swings and points easily.

The L-W pre-chambered and threaded Mauser barrels are a hell of a deal -- I'm going to get one in the 500 Nitro, which I think is actually 500 Jeffery, and keep it in the safe until later. They have a nice crown, rounded with an inside chamfer to protect the rifling -- the good looks of a sporter crown with the protective features of a recessed target crown. My Lott has a recessed target crown, a good feature on a utilitarian rifle, but ugly IMO especially with a banded front sight!

Todd

Todd, Thanks for your reply. Am trying to picture the process of using the hammer, you are expanding the band by driving it further back on the barrel? Please excuse my slowness to comprehend on this. -Fred

Then expand the band by rapping it with smooth, even blows, trying not to let the hammer bounce and restrike. You want to go very gently around the edge of the band, since you can oversize there and end up with a gap. You also want to get as close as possible to thicker parts of the band, like where the swivel attachment or sight ramp come up, but not too close -- if you make a big dent (with the edge of the hammer) in those areas, it's a lot of work to smooth - then you have to go to the other side and remove the same amount so it's symmetric. Sometimes I use a 3" piece of 3/8" steel round stock, which I tapered slightly (and broke the sharp edges), to size the band in the tight spots.

Pfeifer, I am using the heavier "varmint" LW barrel for my 9.3x62. No where near the point where I can post a picture yet, though. -Fred

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pfeifer:
Todd,
Nice work!

Makes me want to get my 9.3x64 Br moving forward - got a Global Trading M98 action, 120 pieces of RWS brass, no just need the rest . What does your rifle weigh in at? I was looking at same barrel for the 9.3x64 but wondering if a tad heavier would be better. Another candiate for Ray's H&H L-W profile

Was this a stock that you picked up off the GA website? Like that classic forend tip.

Regards
Jeff P

---

Fred,

The band is expanded by smooshing it between the face of the hammer and the barrel (the two surfaces are parallel with the thickness of the band in between). Don't try to expand it by hitting directly with a hammer to drive the band assembly back onto the barrel. Always use a wood 'pusher' block between the band and the hammer when driving back onto the barrel. Remember, this is mild steel and will deform very easily -- it cost me the price of a Masterpiece front sight to learn this. Also never try to use pliers or any other kind of vice to twist the band assembly off -- hands only! Loosen it by expanding the band with a hammer, until you can twist it off by hand.

You are actually doing two things that expand the band -- the bulk of the expanding is done by driving it backwards with a wood pusher block, until it sits tighly on the barrel -- then loosening it by expanding the band with the hammer.

Don't forget to keep a close eye on the gaps (between band and barrel) at BOTH ends of the band -- after you drive it back onto the barrel, there will be a gap at the front edge of the band, and none at the back. Your goal is to expand the leading / back edge and back portion of the band enough to allow it to slip back a little further, leaving NO gap at the front or the back. Never hit in such a way as to have more than half of the face of the hammer hanging out over the edge of the band -- preferrably less. If you do this, you will excesssively flatten the edge of the band, giving it a bevelled appearance, and you may put a ding in your barrel. The front and rear edges of the band will definitely require some filing when you are done, to get them back to flat and even.

Doing a 'shoeshine' polish of the areas you are going to be sizing over, with fine emery cloth until you get a nice smooth surface, will make it easier for the band to be driven back, and easier for you to twist it loose by hand. A little oil under the band does not seem to hurt either. Don't even think about driving the bands back onto the barrel while it is assembled in a stock -- think wood splitting maul.

It's pretty easy, just go slowly and don't whack like crazy with the hammer until you get comfortable with what you are doing -- then still don't do that. It took me almost an hour to get the two bands on my 458 sized, admittedly they were poor fitting (way too small) to begin with.

Good luck,
Todd

Todd, this is great. Thank you again. Will order my sight and swivel. When my receiver and bolt come back from Jack Belk I can do this. Thanks. -Fred