Just finished reading a decent article outlining the various British "Houses" renown for their rifle building skills. One thing I found interesting was that Purdey has designed it's own bolt action and QD scope mounts. The author went on to describe this action as being of "sleek" design similar to a Mauser <well isn't that a shock! > built for cartridges from the .375 H&H thru .505Gibbs. He also mentioned that the Purdey QD mounts are "one of the most streamlined and sturdy I have seen-it is a rail mount with integral recoil bar made from a single piece of steel."

Well all of this Purdey talk got my interests up so I proceeded to surf the web trying to find a pic of said action and scope mounts. No luck. I checked the yet to be completed Purdey website and they seem more interested in "dressing me up" than outfitting me for Safari....

So anyone have a picture they could post or know the story on the action and mounts?


Regards,
Dave

Have not seen the action/mount you are talking about. Purdeys attitude is rather arrrogant in general. Holland and Holland , Hartmann Weiss,are much more down to earth with their exhisting or prospective customers.
One English gunmaker I approached at SCI,had a $25000 DGR on a Mauser action,asked him where the action was from,the salesman had no idea,then this hauty pig of a voice in a dismissing manner,came from behind us and said WE DONT KNOW! I am not saying this was Purdey,but it gives you and idea of what you have to deal with. Hartmann & Weiss has both the product and the attitude for me over some of the english,but even their sales men were a pain in the arse,had very little product knowledge,despite having a good product.

Martini/Hagn Gunmakers would be my choice over all of them.Based on product quality,communication,price,genuine character of the person.

Indeed a £16000 plus taxes stalking rifle from Purdey is going to require extra cash for wood upgrade, leather covered pad, oval etc.

The action has allways been a 98 mauser ground of all it's identifying marks.... they won't say which one it is and when you ask 'do you use DWM actions?' they just look blank. Won't tell you what barrels they use either.

The mounts are a horror story, high, overcomplicated, over engineered, massively expensive etc etc.

I have a one man band English custom that cost a tenth that I wouldn't swap for 10 purdeys if I had to keep them.

In the 60s the accuracy guarentee for British stalking rifles was around 4".

quote:

Originally posted by Woodjack:
Have not seen the action/mount you are talking about. Purdeys attitude is rather arrrogant in general. Holland and Holland , Hartmann Weiss,are much more down to earth with their exhisting or prospective customers.
One English gunmaker I approached at SCI,had a $25000 DGR on a Mauser action,asked him where the action was from,the salesman had no idea,then this hauty pig of a voice in a dismissing manner,came from behind us and said WE DONT KNOW! I am not saying this was Purdey,but it gives you and idea of what you have to deal with. Hartmann & Weiss has both the product and the attitude for me over some of the english,but even their sales men were a pain in the arse,had very little product knowledge,despite having a good product.

Martini/Hagn Gunmakers would be my choice over all of them.Based on product quality,communication,price,genuine character of the person.

I had for a few years ago a customrifle built !!.
I had pretty much spend a year or so figuring out which components I should use + being studying all kinds of rifles of different styles! I went thrue some different gunsmiths to see what they could offer and to see ofcause if they had any knowledge of their field, especially when I was willing to spend some 12k!.
Not all gunmakers/smith can do a full customjob, some are good for repairs only which is ok, that`s why it`s very important to see what they have made before + maybe get some references!.

A few yaers ago I had a very interesting visit to JA Roberts (formaly Rigby's) in London.

The discussion on QD mounts came up and the chap there advised that they buy the mounts "in the white" and the same source supplies them to H&H as well. Even back then, the finished and fitted mounts from JA Roberts would cost around £1500/$2800 alone!

JA Roberts did not rate "normal" mordern QD mounts such as Warne, Leupold , Apel ect on anything larger than a .416 Rigby saying that they were not 100% reliable in their opinion with regards returning to zero. Of course, I would say the same thing if i was selling £1500 mounts!

That aside, they were actually very nice folks to talk to and I would not hesistate to use them for any work I needed doing..

Regards,

Pete

I cannot imagine why anyone would bother with an arrogant English riflemaker in today's gunsmithing world; I would never tolerate rudeness from anyone that I intended to spend money with. I am not anti-British, in fact, my maternal great-grandfather was a "Guards" officer and others of my Scottish forbearers served in the Argylls and the Black Watch as officers, BUT, I demand courtesy from those I deal with just as I offer it...without exception.

There are so many really fine riflemakers in the USA that I would not even consider a Purdey or other British riflemaker. Certainly there is paperwork to be done to export an Echol's, Fisher/Burgess, Breeding, Hoenig or other top Yank thunderstick to other nations, but, I think that the hassle is worth it.

I have owned British firearms and examined many others, the older shotguns and double rifles were fabulous, but, the H&H Mauser .375 H&H I shot some years ago cost $8000.00 USD used and the workmanshhip plus accuracy was actually mediocre. I agree with the accessment of Martini & Hagn, but, I prefer their singleshots to their bolt guns, a matter of individual taste, I guess.

Some years ago when I wrote a very basic article on Best Guns for India Today Plus (It is still on the net) I contacted several gunmakers in different countries and Purdey, Holland and Holland etc were extremely helpful. Paul Roberts was an especially enthusiastic and nice man and I am grateful to him even today for the help that he gave me. All of these are companies that make very expensive guns for people who can afford them and want to spend their money on them. If I could afford to buy them (highly unlikely of course) I would gladly buy a pair of Best 12 bore shotguns.

Speaking of arrogance, the only British gunmaker with whom I encountered this was Walter Clode of Westley Richards who sent me a fax saying that he wasn't interested in giving any information because India had banned the import of guns in 1984. I also found several Indian dealers disliked the man intensely because of his arrogance and, when I talked to some British RFDs, they seemed to share the Indian dealers' dislike of the man.

To a freelance writer from a third world country, Purdey were more than courteous as were Holland, Boss etc. And I must repeat this - I am still grateful for the previlege. I would hope that one of our members here who is working on an authoritative article on Purdey and Woodward comments on the Purdey bolt guns.

Best wishes!

Just four or five years ago I bought an H&H 1897 "Farquharson" at H&H in New York City. The price was reasonable. Not surprisingly, the .303 barrel was no better than fair to good. I asked the staff to check with H&H in London about a new .303 barrel, same contour, replace the sights, etc. After a week or so I got a phone call, my interlocutor suggested that I "sit down you won't believe this" the quote was L 3000. Needless to say I did not have it done.

quote:

Originally posted by Pete E:

JA Roberts did not rate "normal" mordern QD mounts such as Warne, Leupold , Apel ect on anything larger than a .416 Rigby saying that they were not 100% reliable in their opinion with regards returning to zero. Of course, I would say the same thing if i was selling £1500 mounts!

Rigby were very good to me, taking a new Nova off a rifle and selling for a reasonable cash price because it was the only scope that would fit Trevors mounts on my 6.5x55 that I was having made.

The mounts were a different matter - ugh. The horizontal metal bar is just awful, the fact that it's needed points to terrible engineering.

I've just taken possession of a pair of Talleys for my BRNO ZG47 - 90US, perfectly executed simple and classic engineering ready blued too!

I think there is no truely good smith producing significant good work in the UK at the moment. They are either terribly overpriced or have some weakness or are very low volume eg TTP.

If I wanted a fine double rifle or shotgun, I'd certainly go with a top British gunmaker like Purdey or Westley Richards. They make the absolute best double-guns to be had, period.

For a bolt gun, the top American makers can and do hammer the stuffy London builders into the ground. There is absolutely no comparison between a top American custom bolt-rifle and a British magazine rifle, from any standpoint of consideration, nor for what you get for your hard-earned investment. This is widely known, and the only guys who don't understand this reality for what it is are guys who are fuzzy on rifle mechanics but totally hung up on the "name" aspect of having a London-made rifle.

Compare a Gene Simillion rifle, for example, to one of those Purdeys, and the difference in design and quality is instantly evident. Very few of the craftsmen and marketeers who produce and sell the London stuff hunt, much less get within 1,000 miles of the hunting country their rifles are intended to be used in (that is, until convention time in the U.S.), and this shows rather severely in the end product -- also in the stuffy, standoffish demeanor you're met with along the way.

On the other had, top American craftsman tend to hunt on a regular basis, some of them quite a bit, and this also shows in the finished product. Honest hands-on experience and honest design integrity and craftsmanship always reveals itself for what it is. You can't fake it, although there are those who take a hard run at it........

AD

Allen,
I have to respectfully disagree with that analogy...Such European Smiths as Ritterbush, Johanson, and Harold Wolfe are every bit as good as any US gunsmith.....The produce 505s, 404s as a standard on their big Mauser actions. The can make a 404 or 505 on a std Mauser that works....I have not seen this from any US Gunsmith and D'Arcy by his own admission to me is not going to try, although I suspect he could...

Basically what I am saying is craftsmanship is not nor will ever be isolated to the USA..it has to do with the individual....and those individuals are damn scarce in the US and anywhere else...

Folks,

Guess I have to clarify things.....in hopes of actually getting my question answered.

I am not interested in purchasing a Purdey magazine rifle, shotgun or double. Yes, I am aware of the "attitudes" present within some of the British gun makers. No, I don't believe these rifles are worth the asking price. Yes, I believe the current American bolt rifles are better than the current Brit Magazine rifles...and I much prefere the look and feel of the America style stock to the British style.

That aside I asked the question because I was curious to know if Purdey was actually producing it's own action and what features or modifications they incorporated. I kind of think they may not be making the action themselves rather having Pretchel or the like make it to their specs. Just a guess...

However, I am especially interested in the QD mounts. I have examined just about all of the QD systems that I am aware of. Each maker trys to tackle this problem in a different way with regard to precission, repeatability, ruggedness and so forth especially with regards to the larger African calibers. Therefore I would really like to see how Purdey addresses these important issues with their QD system..

So, back to my question....Does anyone have a pic or link of Purdey bolt action or QD mount system?


The article which I refered to in my original post..

Top Guns by Alex Brant - Sports Afield Nov 2003

mehulkamdar - how about a link to your article? I'd love to read it.

Best Regards,
Dave

I have seen several of theese Purdey bolt guns and they are the most beautifull bolt guns I have ever seen. This is in my eyes how a bolt gun should look. But I must admit I have not seen very mutch. F.E. I heve never seen any US custom rifle in the same prise range but a david miller that was shown here some years ago. but not first hand. I can not answer you if they let other make the action for them. If I remember right They get the rough rifle tubes from another maker and work on them and finish them by them self. Maybe it is something simelar with the action. That they do about 80% of it by them self, The actually fitting that need the hand of a Purdey craftsmen. But I am not sure of this. If I remember right the QD mount is something simelar to the Chapuis system but mucth more stedy and solid!!! But is is four years cinse I saw it so take it for what I said. I have no Photoes of it.

Regarding the attitude of thise firms, I can not but disagree with you folks that says that they are arrogant and snotty. I have wisited al three of them for some articles and made it very clear that I would not bye guns. All three invited me to the factories and let me have interwievs with very interesting people from the frims. H&H actually on their own idea sendt me to the shooting ground for some shooting and hooked me up with Ken davis. I did not payed a Pound!! I don't think that is arrogant and snotty. I think that If you enter them with the idea that they are arrogant and snotty they catch this intsantly.

quote:

Originally posted by DavidC:
I kind of think they may not be making the action themselves rather having Pretchel or the like make it to their specs. Just a guess...

I very much doubt this action is milled from billets in house and suspect it's more "assembly work". Think the action is made by GMA, Prechtl etc etc.

The London companies has thru history used a number of "sub contractors" for part or guns in white

Cheers,
/ JOHAN

attention Shulz & Larsen poster,
No one has said they are all arrogant and snotty,and congratulations on getting a free day gunning.Politicians hand out candy to kids when marketing themselves as well, nothing wrong with that.If you read this forum again you will see that some good is spoken of H&H as well as other brit companies,but not all.Their work and sometimes their attitude is mostly not up to scratch as the good German,US makers.
I went to SCI with an open mind,and asked various gunmakers simple and logical questions.When a person asks the source/quality of an action on a $25000 rifle he is reasonably entitled to get a respectable answer. Telling someone they dont know seems contemtptous,but in the big picture rather foolish. Hartmann Weiss can show you how they manufacture their own actions and great ones at that. That tells me more about fine gunmaking than a free day in the field. But each to his own.
Other helpful approachable men were Dave Miller,Jerry Fisher,Darcy Echols ,Ralph Martini and others.
I have found the more humble the man the better the grade of work.

A crystal glass does nothing to improve the quality of a cheap wine.
Jesus drove not a chariot,but rode an ass.

Hi Woodjack

Of Course it tells more about the gunmaking if they don't know than candy given out. And if they do, in the manner I read in the post here, thay ending up sucking their own di..

The thing thats irritates me is that the first reply in this thread was about the arrogasnt and snotty attityde of the firm. This is almost evident in every thread with London gumakers as an item. I have just another experience at it.

But they maybe should have learned soon. a Story told me was about a american in jeans and Canaidian shirt walked inn in one of the London gunsmakers, the staff was used to have "tourists" around and did not give him mutch attention. Then this fellow walkes out and to the other gunmaker and bye a set of five guns. paid cash.

Shultz&larsen,

Good to see you here. I was waiting for you to post. Please try and get pictures of the Purdey bolt rifles and details of their manufacture. If someone could get them, I know you could with your association with the company.

I am sure that we would all be grateful to you for this. Best wishes and good hunting!

Shultz&larsen,

I am with mehulkamdar...If you could get us some pictures of both the Purdey bolt action and their QD scope mounts I would be grateful!!!

Also, I have notice that the Purdey website has been "under construction" for a very long time! Any idea of when they will be coming on line...?

Regards,
Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Woodjack:
Have not seen the action/mount you are talking about. Purdeys attitude is rather arrrogant in general. Holland and Holland , Hartmann Weiss,are much more down to earth with their exhisting or prospective customers.
One English gunmaker I approached at SCI,had a $25000 DGR on a Mauser action,asked him where the action was from,the salesman had no idea,then this hauty pig of a voice OINKKK!! in a dismissing manner, came from behind us and said WE DONT KNOW! IGNORAMUS!! I am not saying this was Purdey,but it gives you and idea of what you have to deal with. Hartmann & Weiss has both the product and the attitude for me over some of the english,but even their sales men were a pain in the arse,had very little product knowledge,despite having a good product.

Martini/Hagn Gunmakers would be my choice over all of them.Based on product quality,communication,price,genuine character of the person.

This is pretty funny considering this outffit is located in a country where the very idea of owning a rifle is a joke!!

I make no pretentions, Purdeys are out of my league, from most of the prices I have ever seen.

I did check on H&H though, which is still over the top on what I would spend on a rifle. At 17000 sterling, thats a lot of for a rifle. I would dearly love to have one of these in a 300 H&H, simply "classic".

But for that kind of money, I would commision a Griffin and Howe ( $7000 base) or have someone like D' Arcy Echols build a custom. In my head I am geeting as good or equivilant value for around 1/2 the cost.

My comments are geared to bolt guns. My knowledge base is zero on high end doubles.