Two of the Model 30 actions (Model 30-S) I got have the slot for a guide rib. If I have to use a surplus bolt in them, what is the best way to add the guide rib? Thanks.

send me one and i'll figure it out....



<idiot jeffe was thinking mauser bolts>



jeffe

At least on Winchester 1917's there isn't a guide rib and matching slot, because it is something I am having added to mine. Let me ask and see if I can find the way it is installed.

Red

I own two 1917's (one Eddystone, one Winchester) and there is no "guide rib" on the bolts.

I have never seen a model 30 except in pictures so I don't know what they may or may not have on their bolts.

From what I understand though, the first model 30 receivers were originally made using existing 1917 receivers and parts on hand and the tooling from the 1917's... only modified to lose the ears around the rear sight.

Just keep in mind that model 30S trigger/sear assemblies will not work with a 1917 bolt unless the bolt has been modified to cock on opening.

I'm going to ask a stupid question and hope you are not offended...you're not talking about the "slot" on the right side of the receiver for the extractor are you?

Rick

Here is a picture of one action with the slot and one without. According to the "the Bolt Action" book it was riveted into a slot milled in the bolt and rivets were set through enlarged gas ports in the bolt. I was hoping someone new of an easier way than that. I don't much care for rivets!

I have no idea, brother!

I play around allot with 1917 Enfields, but have NO experience at all with Model 30's other than what I have read. Guide Ribs are normally added to address bolt binding problems...but I have never experienced any bolt binding problems with Enfield 1917 bolts.

So what is your smith telling you would happen if you didn't install a guide rib on the bolt? Stripped 1917 bolts are fairly easy to obtain and your guy could always try brazing a guide rib onto the bolt body to see if that works..but why not just forget about having a guide rib if one isn't really needed. The earlier models didn't have them.

Rick

I have never done this. That said, I would flat off the bolt to receive the rib. Probably silver solder it on. I would use a couple of pins to make sure it was in the right place. Might even temporarly epoxy the rib on and make sure it works before I used the silver solder. I would bury the bolt head in heat stop when applying heat. If the lugs blued I would chalk it up to a grand experiment. If you were to use rivets with heads that tapered on top I bet they would be almost invisible. Maybe rivets and some JB weld might not be such a bad idea? I have had a professional welder that specialized in high tech small jobs to some work for me. He is a wizzard. This may not be a bad option. Just make sure the importance of the heat treat on the bolt head is understood.

Not a good idea.

If someone is going to go to the trouble of manufacturing a guide rib it is far wiser to have it made with the proper bottom radius cut into it so it will fit the radius of the bolt...as opposed to grinding the bolt to fit the square bottomed guide rib.

I did some reading up on these models after this thread was started and from what I found so far all indications are that this guide rib was nothing more than an "anti-bind" feature used to sell the rifle to big game hunters, which were the target consumers at the time and wanted that feature on their rifles.

I won't go so far as to say it is "useless" but the rifle will work perfectly fine without it...and this may be just another case of trying to fix a "problem" that never existed in the first place.

Rick

Bolt guide ribs: The guide rib addition was NOT an advertising gimmick. Remington had War dept results from troop surveys to go by and determined that with the changes they anticipated making in the 1917 design, adding the rib could be a better solution than the M54 Winchester rear of the bolt "stabilizer" would prove to be. The bolt body had a top dead center endmilled slot, the width of the rib for the rib to nest in. Each end of the rib had a peg and these projected through the reamed holes for them. The rib appears to have been made of a carbon spring steel, not the 2340 Nickel steel used by Rem and Edystone.The bolt bodies were drilled from the underside and the drill tip conterbored a drillnose taper in the far inside wall from the entry. The rib was purposely bent to be low in the middle, and the pegs were temper drawn to be soft enough that the ends projecting through the bolt wall could be spalled or riveted over into the drill point cut counterbore. Pressed in place the peg ends were high out of the slot for the rib and it was pressed under pressure to lay flat in the bottom of the slot, then riveted in place, and lastly the bolt bore was reamed to remove any projecting peg metal. Silver brazing would draw the temper of the bolt body,allowing for cold weld galling, Not using a slot to keep the"key" in place would unduly stress the rib pegs causing it to become useless. It was an excellent solution. I use the same on ZKK CZ actions and the 3UE DGR's. I use the Mauser form, which is a bit over 6 m/m wide, but use a slot only a thousandth or so wider, not planning on trench mud clearance. Remingtons may have been made to be 5 m/m wide and flat on top. they seem to average about 196 or so wide. Some fixturing required

History, manufacturing and gunsmithing all rolled into one! Can't beat that.

I know Wanna, that you were asking because of your Rem. 30 actions, but I think it bears pointing out that this is sometimes a necessary addition to 1917 bolts. For instance Winchester 1917's like one I have, the tolerances were not as good as Remingtons and the slop in the fit between bolt body and action could cause binding on opening if the bolt were not pulled with pressure directed strictly to the rear. They expected at the time for soldiers to retrain themselves in the use of the rifle and compensate for their manufacturing allowances. The majority of us apply pressure to the side while drawing the bolt back, and this can cause the bind. Add to this the filling of the duck pond in the Win. version and the possible, although not major, effect this has on the dimensions of the bridge and you compound the problem. On my rifle it is bad. The guide rib and slot in the bridge are the logical and best solution to this. I am sure that this is the reason that Mr. Burgess adds it to his Ultimate Enfields, to ensure proper bolt travel at all times.

I find it interesting that later actions drop things from the mauser design that were superior from the beginning. hmmm......

Red

Systeme98, how long do you make the rib, do you locate the rib to any certain dimension for and aft, and what size access holes to you use on the opposite side of the bolt to get at the pins? How deep would you mill the slot in the bolt? Both of my receivers have slots right at .200 wide, so I could size my rib width accordingly. Thanks for all the info! It never fails to amaze me how many of you are willing to share your knowledge and experience with those of us who ask. This place is a boon to those like me who don't know any shooters or smiths locally who get into this kind of stuff. Without guys like you, I don't know where I could find stuff like this out. Big thanks again. And if I ask too many more enfield/m30 questions, just tell me to shut up! Be alittle while longer till I get going on the first of the 3 I have, man I can't wait. Big thanks again.