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| <k wood> |
There has been a lot of discussion here about these actions. I don't know the particulars of these actions, but I built a 25-06 on one and don't see anything wrong with it. I have more of them waiting to be built. I'm sure we'll here from the mauser experts, it'll be interesting what they have to say. | ||
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| <hsp223> |
The Turk 38 is a standard M98 mauser action, BUT and this is an important point, it uses the small ring/shank mauser barrels. It seems Turkey had an excess of these barrels when they rearsenaled in 1938 and stipulated that the actions be able to utilize these barrels (they also had reworks of Gew98 actions). In practical terms, this means that there are fewer premanufactured barrels that will fit these actions as well as less variety of calibers. However, standard Remington 700 takeoff barrels can be turned and threaded for these actions as the shank diameter is of sufficient size. As a side note, use only those guns marked as K.Kales and NOT the Gew98 reworks for conversion. It turns out that the Gew98 reworks (ATF superimposed on each other)were standard large ring actions that had the front of the reciever counterbored to hold the upper handguard. This in effect caused the removal of a couple of barrel threads. In one instance this left an action that had only 3 threads holding the barrel to the reciever. (For complete story look in the archives at Parallax's Turk forum) This may not be common but why take the chance. As far as strength is concerned, It is still unclear as to who made these actions and what kind of steel they are made from or the heat treating process. The rifles handle Turk 8 mm very well. Turk 8 mm ammo seems to be a bit hotter than other surplus 8 mm. So this action is a bit of an unknown in that respect. HTH | ||
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| <Dan in Wa> |
Are these the same actions that you see advertised in Shot Gun News only chambered in .308 Win.? If so...3 threads...sounds like I'll have to pass. Kinda wanted one to shoot cast bullets. | ||
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| <Scott H> |
Dan in Wa, The short threaded actions are the ATF series large thread receivers. The standard K.Kales (large ring-small thread) M38 receivers have a thread shank length of roughly .710 inches. The 1903 Turks have a longer thread shank than the K. Kales M38. I have both K. Kales and and 1903 receivers. I think the 1903 metal work is nicer than the m-38 K. Kales with respect to appearance. I believe both receivers are capable of being used for any .30-06 length variants. Remember the commercial Husqvarna (HVA) actions were small ring and were chambered for .30-06 length cases and worked great. That said, if I were going to opt for a large thread Mauser to build a fancy custom, I would select a Persian. The metal work is fantastic on these receivers. IMO, the Persians are every bit as nice as a 1909 Argentine and more plentiful. Most of the Persians are in very good condition, whereas the Turks tend to be pretty rough. [This message has been edited by Scott H (edited 07-13-2001).] [This message has been edited by Scott H (edited 07-13-2001).] | ||
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| <Dan in Wa> |
Scott, Where are you finding these actions, or are they complete rifles? How about cost. I'm kinda getting into the mil-surp. with cast bullet thing. Bought a No.4 Mark 2 new in box a couple years ago and it needs a little brother. As you can imiagine I'm new to this.I take it these are in 8mm? Thanks in advance. Dan | ||
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| <Scott H> |
Dan, I bought the 1903 three years ago. The dealer is no longer in business. I still see ads for 1903 actions in Shotgun News every now and then. Model 38 rifles are available from several dealers advertising in Shotgun News. The Persian mausers are sold by Samco Global Arms in Florida. They sell complete rifles or barreled actions. The Persians are a lot more expensive than the Turks, ($190.00 and up.) P.S. I forgot to mention that the 1903 Turk is an intermediate bolt length and the model 38 is a standard m98 length. It may be more practical to get a M38 for this reason. Yes, they are all 8mm. [This message has been edited by Scott H (edited 07-13-2001).] | ||
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| one of us |
Haunt your local Big 5 sporting goods for Turks. Get the gun guy interested, convince him to let you look at the rifles in the storage area. Now you can hand select. : ))Bring a rod to punch the bores. Better still is to call him often and ask if new rifles have arrived, or even better yet, get him to call you! You can get minty rifles this way. It is a lot of rifle for $55.00 on sale. Turk ammo is DIRT cheap. Buy several thosand rounds, mail order, and wear the rifle out. The most fun you will have for a hundred bucks, well....almost, Have fun. | |||
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| one of us |
As an aside, SAMCO is in my experience with them a classy operation with very good rifles. My 1896 Carl Gustav Swede Marksman, described as "very good", was more like excellent to fine and only occasioally throws one outside of the 10 ring. One of the sights was damaged by the tender ministrations of UPS, a call to SAMCO and the reply was "and was there anything else you wanted", the replacement part arrived in 4 days (to Alaska). Friends have had similar experience with them. I lked that Swede so much, another is in transit. Good Shoot'n! | |||
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| <hsp223> |
Dan in Wa - If you are getting into milsurp rifles, go for your Curio and Relic liscense. It costs 30.00 for 3 years and is a simple form to fill out and send to the BATF. It must be legal for you to own a gun at your residense and not violate any state laws. This allows you to buy direct from the importers all C&R guns. Right now Century is selling M38's for 39.99. Every so often they go on sale at 4 fer 100.00 and that includes a bayonet. My last 4-fer deal had the gun listed at 15.00 and the bayonet at 10.00. Now I ask you where can you get a 98 mauser for 15.00? If you don't wish to go that route then find a Big 5 or other dealer that doesn't jack the price to high. At the area gunshows I see the Turks going for about 80-100.00, which is not as bad as some dealers trying to sell them for 125-150.00. If you are only giong to buy a couple of milsurps then forgo getting the liscense, but, and I warn you; Buying surplus guns is like eating lays potato chips: ONE IS NEVER ENOUGH. | ||
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| <333-OKH> |
Does anyone know if Remington barrels can be fit to Springfield 03/03A3 recievers. I have the de Haas book "Bolt Action Rifles" which has the barrel shank dimensions. To my unskilled eye, there appears to be enough excess on the Rem shank to turn down to fit the Springfield. I have no idea how deep the threads are on the Rem. However I have access to a Rem. cut Shilen barrel and a cheap sporterized 03A3. Can it be done? Come on-say yes and make my day. ------------------ | ||
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| <Bill Tompkins> |
333-OKH, As much as I would like to make your day, it just isn't going to happen. Look at you De Haas book, the Remington shank should measure 1.060", then subtract the 16 TPI which is 0.081 double depth (both sides), you should come up with 0.979 minor diameter (bottom of the thread). Once you clean off the threads on the Remington barrel you won't have anything left for the Springfield threads. Both shanks start out real close to the same diameters and thread to just about the same depth. Since the Springfield is a square thread, you can't just thread over the top of the Remington threads. Does this make sense? If not, let's try it again. | ||
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| <333-OKH> |
Bill; Thanks, I knew that was too damn easy. Guess I'll have to find a small shank Mauser, but I really wanted that old 03. Michael. ------------------ | ||
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| <BigBores> |
OK, so how about the Turk 38 action, worth messing with or not? You Mauser builders, ever do one on a Turk? I'm not looking for an Heirloom, just a reliable, accurate field gun (one that can get knocked around without cringing over scratches and dings). Is the metal any good in the reciever or not? I haven't seen any with the counterbore hsp223 mentions. Looks like standard fare barrel to reciever mating to me, but small ring. Not looking for a 65K pressure rifle anyway. | ||
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| <Scott H> |
Bigbore, The 38 is fine. Its a pretty typical full length mauser 98. The counter bore retains the rear of the handguard, and you won't see it until you pull it out of the wood. They aren't pretty, but can handle anything you can safely build on a standard 98 action. | ||
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| one of us |
the 38 is fine enough I suppose but I would classify the metal as a little dirty, full of extra stuff.... I, as Scott pointed consider the Persian a very good action, as well as the 1909 Argintine..My all time favorite being the 1935 Chilean.... ------------------ | |||
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| <Hubie> |
quote: In a word, yes-if you can do a lot of the work yourself. If you have to have the work done by a gunsmith, I would hesitate, as the cost would be the same. I have built one in 7.62x39, using a surplus Enfield bbl, and there is a .257Roberts planned. I think they are fine for an inexpensive "knockabout", but not what I would choose for a real custom job... | ||
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