This brings up and interesting point. Does anyone know if the Classic actions have slightly different geometry of the follower/feed rails from the Pre 64 model 70. I've heard this a couple times but was never able to confirm it. The word I got was that Winchester changed out the follower when the Classic came out. Maybe a simple change of follower would take care of the feeding problem?
I've known many Pre 64 model 70's to work great when converted to belted magnums, but never really had the opportunity to see a new Classic converted. All the Pre 64's I've been acquainted with fed perfectly. Not being a gunsmith myself, I'm not entirely familiar with what is needed for this work to be done- just a bit of speculation on my part.- Bob

If I wanted to make this conversion, what needs to be done besides a new barrel?
Thanks
Jeff

open the boltface, adjust the feed rails, replace the magazine box and follower, crossbolt the stock.........DJ

Not to be disagreeable, but I disagree! -
I've seen many of these done by just opening the bolt face and a barrel replacement. My own Pre 64 Model 70 338 was originally a 30-06 as were several of my friends rifles. Never had to adjust the feed rails or replace the follower or spring and they feed like they have eyes. Your milage may vary, but I would try it first without the aforementioned changes before spending the money. Especially if your gunsmith isn't a real expert on adjusting feed rails- what comes off isn't always easy to put back on.- Sheister

Sheister, the rails on a factory Magnum M70 are different than the rails on a Standaard M70... actually only the left rail is different. I've no doubt what you're saying is true but thought the fact should be pointed out.

Brad

I have owned and used a pile of Pre-64s and the .338 is my favourite-this is because I am a "magnum wimp"-chuckle, chuckle.



I had a .270 and an '.06 re-barreled to .338 with Harts some years ago and they would not feed correctly; it took some tinkering with the upper, inside part of the receiver bridge to adjust this. I do not doubt Sheister on his experience or those of his friends, but, Brad is right about the left feed rail. I think that the manufacturing tolerances over the lifespan of this wonderful rifle are probably the reason for the discrepancy.



I will also say that I own a lot of rifles including mint examples of almost every high end, classic hunting rifle made and have used them, hard, as tools in my former employment. I would take a Pre-64 Mod. 70 over absolutely ANYTHING else for the tough conditions in B.C., I have NEVER had the slightest malfunction with one and I have used some to the point where they had to be re-blued twice.



There is NO rifle I trust in deep bush as much as a 70 in .338 or .375, I have owned 5 .338s, 3 .375s and 3 .300s plus dozens of lighter calibers. If, I were forced to use only one rifle for serious wilderness hunting and protection, I would take a 70 in .338 without a second thought. After 40 yrs. I prefer to use these tough, reliable and accurate rifles over any others, period.



I do think that Sheister's point is a very good idea, I would start as he suggests and then adjust the feeding as and if needed. If, this is to be your first old 70 in .338, I think that you will love it.

What Sheister says is the logical way to proceed. Taking logic to it's completion one should just shop for a rifle in 338. The 30-06 is a more useful chambering anyway and unless the barrel is defective your throwing away it's value and it's installation.

If the feed rails get messed up and don't feed anything what happens next?

Kutenay, though I'm only 42, it's rather scary how alike you and I think from backpack gear and boots to knives an guns. In fact, if I had my druther's, BC has always been the place I'd live... the finest wilderness on the planet IMO. Also, the 338 WM is quite possibly my favorite round. As Jack Atcheson say's, "it numb's em!" Though I've "only had two 375 H&H's and two 300's, I've had five 338's, the last four of which all had 22" bbl's. I agree, for a thumpin wilderness rig it's hard to beat! Right now I've got my heart set on a Kimber "Montana" 8400 in 300 WSM... it's not about the cartridge so much as it's about the rifle it's chambered for... a nice, light rig pushing a 180 at 3,000.

Best,

Brad

I don't disagree with your assessment of the feed rail discrepancies, however I've found precious few gunsmiths really understand how to alter feed rails properly. If you get lucky like I and others have, you will be able to avoid the hassles involved with damaged feed rails. If, however, you need feed rail adjustment, it is obviously best to find a gunsmith who understands the workings of the Winchester magazine geometry and how to make it work flawlessly.
Just my 2 cent's worth on it. Not trying to step on any toes here.

BTW, interesting note- my favorite .338 (I have two) has a 22" barrel also. I love carrying that rifle except for really lousy weather Elk hunting, where my Classic Stainless gets the nod. Can't bear the thought of letting my deep blued partner get rusted up setting in a tent for a week any more.- Sheister

Sheister, you're not stepping on anyone's toes! And I agree, it's VERY important for a smith to understand the dynamic's of the M70 feed system or disaster could result.

BTW, I'm also not saying you're wrong that an un-altered 30-06 couldn't handle a 338 WM cartridge... I suppose some do and some don't. About a month ago I was contemplating another 338 WM on a stainless M70 (30-06) action. As an experiment I swithed out the 30-06's magazine box and extractor from a Magnum M70. I then ran dummy 338 rounds through it... didn't feed worth a hoot and became obvious the depth of the standard left feed rail was the culprit. Again, not saying that's alway's the case, just that time.

Best,

Brad

The "Classic" 70s are more dependent on the lips of the magazine box to control initial feeding movement as the extractor beak accepts the cartridge head. They probably do have a better gas handling system than the old ones and may be stronger, but, I prefer the old ones as I think the over-all quality is better. Also, I load "hunting" rounds not bombs, if you know what I mean.

Brad, our choices in gear are not that surprising, I was born, raised and started to work in the bush just north of the WA-ID.-MT-B.C. border and what works down there also works up here. I also find that the best outdoor equipment in the world, with very few exceptions, is made in the USA.

The situation is analogous to the British Empire of a century ago when the wealth, power and global reach of England was like that of the States now. You have the wealth, the large domestic market and the globe-trotting adventurers and therefore you design and make the gear.

A good example is Schnee's, every guy I know up north wears these in wet weather and I actually prefer to wear them for most hunting because they are so quiet and scent-proof.BTW, have you had a look at that new pack that Dana Gleason is building for the U.S.N. SEALS, I gotta serious hardon for one of those.

Brad, I didn't realize you were such an old fart!

Chuck

The term is "experienced", ya sassy young bugger!!!

Easy. LOL!

Chuck

JAB,
Since you didn't say a pre-64, I won't assume it is.

it's cheaper/faster/better to sell the 30-06 and get yourself a new 338 classic.

If your 30-06 IS a pre-64, it's STILL cheaper/faster/better to BUY an new 338 and keep the 30-06

bost breakdown
1: barrel - pacnor- 200
2: headspace and feed 200
3: polish and blue 100-150
4: sights (installed) 200

700-750...
new classic
550-600 bucks

jeffe

The others have given you good advice on the conversion. Just some food for though; since you are already setup for the 06, why not go .338-06? With a 24" lt.wt. bbl. you get close to the perf. of the .338wm in a lighter oackage. For most of our NA hunting the .338-06 gives up very little to the great .338Winmag.

Easy there Chuck!



Kutenay, Dana's building most of the "Mystery Ranch" (wierd name, huh?) packs here in Bozeman. They're good! A friend who guides up in the Spatsizi field test's stuff for Dana and over Christmas I had a chance to handle one of the prototype's... I was drooling! I believe Dana's working on a pack just for hunter's. It's a darn shame so much stuff has gone to China and Mexico. Most of my packs are US built (pre 2002) Osprey's... they fit me better than even the old Dana Terraplane. I'll disagree a bit tho... ArcTyrx packs made in BC are among the best anywhere... Integral Designs is no slouch either and one of my favorite knives is the Canadian Belt knife from Pictou, Nova Scotia.

The difference between the pre-64 and the post-64 classic is the depth of the magazine box. In the classic the magazine box goes all the way up until it is directly beneath the feed rails and on the pre-64 the box is about 3/8's beneath the rails.
I typically adjust the feed rails on all my model 70's. There is feeding and there is feeding. I like for mine to smoothly feed even empty's. But there is no sense in adjusting the rails until you have a proper width magazine box. Timing them properly is a bit of a chore but I feel is worth the effort to try and get them as perfect as I am able. I would dearly love to watch D'Arcy Echols time the box, follower, extractor and rails on a Model 70 to see how it is done by the best......DJ

Thanks for all the posts. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with this rifle yet. I might keep it as a 30-06, or re-barrel to 338-06 or 338 Win. Just looking for some ideas and what it might take. Best to all.