Hello,
Was tinkering with the idea of getting my own lathe. It would have to be a 240 volt unit. Would need it for my own rifle work, not neccessarily anybody else's. What would be a good choice?

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Safety & Ethics,Accuracy, Velocity, Energy
Joe M

Joe,

I would presume there are many lathe makers wares available in the US.

We use an EMCO, it is made in Austria, but rather expensive. I think it cost us around $26,000. Works great though, and extremely accurate work can be done on it.

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saeed@ emirates.net.ae

www.accuratereloading.com

How much are you willing/able to spend?

You should look for a 12X36 or 13X40, w/ a ~1 3/8" through hole in the spindle. Figure tooling will cost as much as the lathe, even if it is "tooled" adding the collets, good drill chuck, cutters, etc. will double the cost, easily.

The least exspensive lathes in this size are $2-3k and made in China. Manual machines just aren't made much anymore, so there aren't alot of makers out there. I would much rather spend $3k on a chinese import then $3k on a beat used US machine. A rebuilt or good condition used lathe can run $10k.

So, let us know what your budget is, and we can point you in the right direction.

Haunt the school auctions. Machine shop classes are being phased out and excellent deals are to be had. You get the tooling too. Find the local auction companies and get on their mailing lists. Don't buy new, too expensive by at least an order of magnitude.

Before buying a chinese machine be sure and check the internal runout spec of the headstock. I saw one the other day that had an internal runout of .005, makes it real hard to do precision work. I would find a good machinery place and have then seach for a good used Colechester or something similar.
My lathe is a LeBlonde Regal 17x60, 7hp 3 phase. The only thing wrong with the machine is that it is 36" deep through the headstock, so it eliminates some options on how to do some jobs. I bought it used from a machinery jockey for $3500. When you move the dial .010, the cut is .010.

[This message has been edited by DuaneinND (edited 08-11-2001).]

When I buy one, it will be a Smithy, right here from Michigan.

Terry,

I too have thought of the Smithy. But, do you seasoned gunsmiths that do regular machine work consider them a quality product?

Are they good enough for precision work? They seem awfully inexpensive. Just wondering, also looked at their mills. Same question.?

Gentlemen,

I would not touch any of the Chinese made lathes with a barge pole!

I saw some here in Dubai, and they were bloody awful.

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saeed@ emirates.net.ae

www.accuratereloading.com

The Smithy lathes are pure junk. It is very poorly designed and very poorly built. You can read a report on Smithy in The American Gunsmith published about 2 years ago.

I have owned several lathes. If I were looking for one today to gunsmith with my first choice would be a used Clausing 5900 series (which I now own), it has a varible speed drive, is heavy and rigid and is very accurate. Second choice would be a Clausing Colchester, they are extremely accurate and rigid but are very heavy, usually 3 phase motor and pretty expensive. Third choice would be a Southbend Heavy 10, very accurate tool room lathe. If these were too expensive I would shop for a used South Bend bench lathe or a Logan bench lathe. Not as heavy but very good quality and more suited for the hobbiest. Also more affordable. Get in touch with a used equipment dealer, check out local auctions and ebay.

If you wanted a new one I would buy the most expensive one I could afford from MSC.

If you are a tinkerer and have some mechanical apptitude you can buy a fixer upper and learn a great deal in the process of rebuilding it. I've done this and it is quite time consuming but will give you a head start in learning about machine shop principals. Even if the lathe has a lot of wear a good machinist can compensate for this if he is not doing high volume work and pressed for time.

Good Luck,
Craftsman

Get a good used Monarch! They are one of the most accurate engine lathes in existence.

Todd E

Craftsman,
You referred in your e-mail to "MSC" as being a place to buy a lathe. What does this stand for and do they have a website?
Todd

Joe,

Best starting points for you would probably be http://www.thomasregistry.com One can sign up for a free membership to find an organization selling the unit desired for the purchase.

You will eminently find the bare-boned units through to the fully computerized automated versions at this site.

There were a few other sites around virtual cyberspace which shared personal experiences with various lathes/milling units of the units used.

Obviously it will boil down to costs vs. capabilities.

Another avenue to look down would be some auction outlets which take back these capital assets from expired leases and foreclosures and so forth.

The advantages there would be that one MIGHT find a good deal but typically one is disadvantaged because those units coming back have been maximally abused and may not be worth the expense of refurbishment. Good Luck!

Best regards,
Alex

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote! - Benjamin Franklin 1759

Boltgun,

MSC Industrial Supply Co.
75 Maxess Rd.
Melville, NY 11747-3151
1-800-645-7270
www.mscdirect.com

Their catalogue weighs about 15 lbs.

There is a significant difference between Chinese and Taiwanese equipment at this time. I consider the Taiwanese stuff to be quite good. The Chinese machinery frequently looks as if it is a copy made from a blurry photograph.
I would like to have a top quality US or European machine but the truth is I can't justify the cost and the performance of the Advance machine I use is just fine.
Within reason the bigger the better for the purpose of rigidity but you don't want a machine that is so big that the tailstock is too heavy to manage easily. A 13x40 is fine a 14x40 is a little better. Regards, Bill.

Hello Joe

I use a South Bend 10L, takes 5C collets and has a big enough spindle for most barrels. It is 110V but I think there are 240V models. I got it well-used for about $700 with tooling.

Tom

i would have to agree with todd, buy a monarch, they come in all shapes and sizes and are probably the best lathe out there, in our shop we have a 1964 model which was rebuilt in '84 and still holds .0005 regularly. in my opinion i would rather have a '50ish to '60ish american machine than a brand new import. in fact the the only imports i would consider are mazaks a.k.a yamazaki, cadillac,yam. if you buy a lathe make sure the crossfeed dial gives you .001 off the dia. per divisional line, instead of .002 off the dia.. in other words when you turn the dial one mark it should cut .001 alot of machines cut .002 per mark.

I'm posting for a friend of mine, no stranger to this site, William "Wild Bill" Hicinbothem because he has no computer available to him at this time.

Hello compadres! long time, no type! "Curtis" told me about your lathe debate and naturally I've just had to stick my big nose in! To those who do not know me, I'm a CNC Machinist by trade and have a great deal of experiance with lathes of all kinds and hopefully I can clarify somethings.
1. the chinese "lathes" (and I use the term loosely!) are good boat anchors and nothing more.
1A. smithys see above.
2. most of the big names have parts available for stuff that is half a century old provided their still in business!So think about a fixerupper if ya got the skills!
3.South bends are Ok machines but not ideal - Heavy 10's are NOT toolroom lathes! they are simply 10 inch lathes with a heavier casting and a larger through hole.
4.Ideally you'd want a Monarch or a Leblond - everybody in the field knows this especially machinery dealers so expect to pay more.
5. deals are uncommon but can be had! A buddy just bought a four year old Leblond Mizuno for 4 grand - It looked brand new and weighs 3500lbs with a 2inch+ through hole! he got it at a defense industry auction in Long Island - I'm trying to snake it away from him!
6.forget about new (too expensive 10K+ for even a small machine) and try to avoid dealers (still too much) and concentrate on auctions (not school ones as the stuff they probably have is old, light and abused)don't forget ebay - you'd be surprised how much machinery is sold there.
7. Power - most of the larger and therefore better machines are 3phase 220v, even small machines are not common and are more expensive therefore consider either remotoring or getting a phase converter.
8.MSC is great but they are expensive, get on the flier(s) mailing list(metalworking,Home shop and hobby, Maintiance) and try to wait for a sale.
9.prepare to spend ungodly amounts of money - I'm thinking about an upcoming auction with a 97 Moiri Seiki VMC for sale It will probably go for 30K!

If you're really interested, I know of a nice clausing colchester that's going up for bid soon. How much are you willing to pay? If you're serious, I'll ask the seller to talk to you(no tire kickers!) Keep in mind, I may buy it.

by aim and by effort

Wild Bill

Posters: disagree with me, go on, I dare ya!

The LeBlond I looked at a few years back was made in Taiwan as a point of intrest.
If the lathe has straight ways and the head stock and tailstock are properly aligned it will do good work. If the castings are sound and other materials are suitable it will last a long time.
No matter what the quality if it is set up improperly it will do poor work.
One who is confident in his or her ability to determine whether or not the machine is working well doesn't have to be quite as concerned about the origin only the performance counts.
KBC tools is another good source for machinery and tooling. The catalogue is one of my favorite bathroom readers! Regards, Bill.

Is the Jet lathe Chinese made? Has anyone had any dealings with Blue Ridge Machinery and Tools?
Thanks,
Todd

Another transmission from "Wild Bill"

The Jets are Chinese and probably the best of the whole lot. The small ones are too lightly built the larger machines (17x60+) are half way decent but for the amount of money you're going to spend you might as well buy an American, Japanese, or European made machine. BTW, The Leblond is still an American made Machine to the best of my (Wild Bill) knowledge. And my buddy's machine appears to be built like a battle tank, extremely wide cross slide which makes it very still good for heavy cuts. I still stand by my original post: Monarchs and Leblonds are going to be the strongest, stiffest, most accurate lathes you can buy w/o a computer attached. There are 2 ways to go about doing this. One costs $4,000 the other $20,000 but in the end you get what you pay for. Only rich men can afford cheap machines. Personally I like Monarchs but I don't feel like robbing a bank to finance one. Note I have left out serveral relatively new machine manufacturers simply because of lack of experience w/the particular product, Summit comes comes to mind.

If you're really interested in buying a new QUALITY lathe I suggest you go to one of the trade shows "Eastec", "Westec", the mother of all show "IMTS" this way you can get a first hand up close look at what's available you may even get a chance to try it out if you seem serious enough about it.

Blue Rideg Machinery and Tool aims more towards hobbiests. MSC is the Bible of industrial suppliers w/ Grainger and others coming in at close second. believe it or not most of the larger size companies order stuff straight from manufacturer rather than MSC since they order in serious quantity.

Side note my (Curtis Lemay) father spent $20,000 on endmills last year.

any other questions?

ps. If you're willing to spend money you might want to do some side work with it to help pay for it. Gun smithing licenses are realatively cheap and will defray costs.

You might want to look around seriously at what it might cost, since this sort of investment is not for the faint of heart.

Keep in mind that after you get a lathe sooner or later you're going to realize you need a mill, then after you're going to think you might need a surface grinder. Pretty soon a cylindewr grinder looks pretty useful. Before long you will be broke with a garage full of machinery.

Eventually you'll reach the point of where i'm at now. the relative limitations of manual equipment and start think about things like Verticle and Horizontal Machining Centers, Swiss Type Screw Machines, 8 Axis CNC Tool Grinders, etc, ect., ect.

Hello,
Every once in a while we get "we are going out of business and selling our hardware" flyers at the plant, and usually there are some pretty good deals in there, but the problem is most of the lathes in these flyers are 480 Volt units, which means a new motor (not a fan of phase converters) and they are usually ENORMOUS. Like beds that are 10 feet long with swings in the 16-20 inch range. Way to much to do a little rifle barrel. But on the upside they are also a lot of the names that have been posted here. I see a lot of Clausing/colchester and Monarch, a few LeBlonds from time to time. I make my living as an electronics tech, but during college I did take a course in machine tool, and we learned how to run mills, lathes, surface grinders, and saws. I am comfortable with them, and measuring insturments (I have found I use most of these on the reloading bench anyway). Not saying I am a pro-machinist, but I can find my way around. Some of you may recall a post I made about the feasability of installing pre-chambered, pre-threaded a barrel with a die stock and tap handle. I asked that because I just found it hard to imagine that every barrel ever installed was done so via a expesive piece of equipment, nor that all these creations were neccessarily unsafe or inaccurate. I was also thinking there were in all likely-hood, gunsmiths rebuilding bolt guns before the widespread use of electricity in Amercia, and I wanted to tap into how they made do. BUT Judging from the amount of flame that generated I decided to take down the post, and decided that I will just have to get another piece of equipment, although I sense I will be waiting a while for that "just right" deal. I just enjoy doing things myself, and some of what I have in mind would get real expensive in a hurry to have somebody else do it. On the first one, I had planned to have another guy I know watch over me while I did the setups to make sure I didn't mess up.

Joe M

Sounds like you are interested in this from a hobbiest standpoint.

I would suggest you follow ebay and purchase a used South Bend bench lathe 9" swing and 36" between centers, preferably with quick change gears. You can also find good Logan lathes with these dimensions.

These lathes are very accurate and affordable, they run on 120 volt current, and they can moved by two people. You can not put a barrel through the head stock but you can still do contouring, threading, crowning and chambering between centers. That is the method most bench rest and accuracy minded gunsmiths machine the barrel anyway. Yes the bigger, heavier and more expensive machines are more rigid and very accurate but the small South Bends, Logans, and Clausings (they made small ones too) are very accurate too if the operator realizes it's limitations and compensates for it (differant speeds, feeds, tooling and setups).

P. O. Ackley addresses this subject in his book in more detail.

You already have enough training to realize you can learn machine shop principals so go for it. Once you get one you will wonder how you did without it. Dont be surprised if you find your self looking forward to buying a new accesory for your lathe more than getting a new rifle.

Good Luck
Craftsman

Here is my 2 bits worth, I have seen some Jet machines that are good units and I would not hesitate to but one. I use an Enterprise got from a school sale. This can be a little scary but I had just taken a course and knew the machine to be good, there are good deals to be had at school sales if you are careful. I use a static phase converter to run ny three phase motor and have no complaint with it. If it wasn't mounted on the wall where you can see it you would never know it was there. This is the only Enterprise I have ever used, it is an accutare machine and I checked and parts are still available here in the U.S.

Cut through the BS and get yourself a good "used" American made lathe such as a Southbend.
As long as it will turn a 28" barrel your in good shape...Don't worry about the condition too much, as you can rebuild a lathe with a lathe...

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com