Following the thread about soldered, screwed or integral quarter ribs, it brings up a question. If the the rib is integral to the barrel, don't you need to start off with a very large diameter barrel and machine the snot out of it to arrive at a barrel with an integral rib? Won't all this machining add a bunch of stress to the barrel, effecting accuracy?

David Miller told me a story about building Jim Carmichel's .338 Win. Mag., which features a 23" barrel with an integral quarter rib. This is a very lovely gun, and since Jim's a friend of mine, I've had the chance to examine this rifle in great detail. Workmanship is absolutely the finest, believe me!

Anyhow, when Jim ordered the rifle, he sent an oversized Douglas barrel blank to Miller. Dave told me that his greatest worry was that he would put all of this intense labor and numerous tricky proceedures into the machining of that barrel and quarter rib, only to be left with a rifle that wouldn't shoot into a washtub. Luckily, the completed rifle was a tackdriver from the get-go, and Jim has used it around the world for over twenty-five years. It's never changed zero or otherwise caused grief.

I don't know this, but I suspect the individual blank itself as well as fundamental proceedure has much to do with the end result. Not all riflesmiths are created equal.....

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Allen



I am sure you would agree that it isn't only the barrel.

David Miller basically remachines every action that he works on, cutting the threads concentric, cutting the lugs and lug recesses, the bolt face, etc.



Would you not agree, in short, that accuracy is the sum of all of its parts, including the barrel.



(for what its worth, Mr. Carmichal's Miller .338 is on an 09 Argentine action, I believe.)



Blue

I have 5 barrels done this way and all of them shoot extremely well. I think the speed and care in the machining is what makes the project work. I have a trio of guns by Rick Sticikley and all shoot under MOA. 375 H&H, 404 Jeffery, and 458 Lott. The 505 Gibbs and 338 Win.Mag. I sold. Rick machines them slow so as not to induce undue stress.

Blue, I do agree that an accurate (and I'll add, RELIABLE) rifle is the sum of all its parts plus proper refinement and assembly.

The really great rifles of my experience are COMPLETE rifles, and the riflesmiths who built them left no stone unturned in terms of construction or refinement. Every component, every procedure, every consideration, every step was considered important and received full attention. Nothing was sent out the door without thorough and complete testing.

Contrast this to a custom rifle which I had completed in 1984. I asked the stockmaker who built it how it shot, and he shot back, "How should I know? That's YOUR job!" And it didn't shoot, and I wasn't happy with it, and I sold it, and I never ordered another stock from that man again.

Such nonsense would never take place in a shop such as Dave Miller's, and an unproven rifle would never make it out the door.

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Allen

I think you just described a "best" quality rifle.

blue

I suppose I have, but I've also owned several moderately-priced custom jobs (not "Best Quality") with blueprinted metalwork and fiberglass stocks that were thoroughly tested for function and accuracy by their makers before I ever laid my hands on them. They weren't necessarily pretty, but man, did they shoot, and function was superb.

How anyone could turn out a fancy stock or a complete fancy rifle (fancy price tag included!) and not thoroughly understand what they've sent out the door to a trusting, anxious customer is beyond me, but some have operated that way, unfortunately, and some still do.

Earl Milliron told me about a 6mm Remington which he stocked for a well-know foreign leader who loved to hunt and who was indeed a true world-class rifleman and hunter; one of the greatest ever. Jack O'Connor acted as go-between for the project, since he was a Milliron client himself, and since he was also a close friend and hunting partner of the dignitary.

Anyhow, that 6mm Remington was to feature a Model 70 action, full Burgess metalwork, and intricate engraving by John Warren. When everything was complete, Earl shot the rifle, worked up loads, tested factory loads, and made sure that everything was A-OK. For all he knew, this little gem of a rifle may have been destined for the collector's cabinet - not the hunting battery - but to Earl, this made no difference. HE'D know the difference, and he wasn't going to send out something fancy and beautiful that wouldn't shoot the way it should to anyone.

And he carried this philosophy through to every rifle he ever stocked, no matter who the client was. It's one of the reasons he was one of the all-time greats.

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Allen

Thank you very much for telling that story. All too often on this forum we hear of complaints about rifles and actions, and it is really a treat to hear a personal story about a custom maker who really cared about what he was doing. Makes one want to look around for a Milliron Rifle!!

Anyone got anymore good stories (that they can tell in public) about dealing with Custom Smiths who really did some fine work for you.

Blue

I once started with a 1.25" barrel blank and machined a double taper octagon for the first half length of the barrel and round the rest of the way with an integral vent rib the entire length of the barrel.....I had over 200 hours milling on that thing.

I chambered it to .222 and attached it to a Sako L461 and proceeded to make my longest string of prairie dog hits of my life.....39

Everyone told me that it wouldn't shoot......BTW the barrel came from Star and I bought it from Herter's for $10

I'd not do it again!!!!

If you want an integral 1/4 rib and willing to pay for it.....I'd say go for it.

Sorry to join in so late, but I will add another happy story to this thread, since I just got the rifle back. I have one of the early M70 "classic" actions in .375 H&H, which I bought in the synthetic matte version, with the intention of putting it into a laminated stock. I machined a quarter rib for it, and had purchased an Accrabond stock to put it into.

As many of you know, I spend an inordinate amount of time hanging around Duane Wiebe's shop, and was there visiting him, when I noticed an "old" barrel with a intagrally machined full length rib, front sight, and sling stud stuffed into his junk barrel pile. When I asked Duane about it, he said that it was one he had made up for a customer in the late 1980's, that the customer could not get to shoot. Since this was a customer who Duane had built several guns for, Duane replaced it for him, and shoved the old barrel in the scrap pile. The barrel was threaded for a pre-64 Model 70, and exhibited Duane's usual faultless craftsmanship. I asked if I could clean it up to see if there was an obvious problem. After doing so, the barrel and bore looked good, so I had Duane install it in my M70. He set the barrel back one turn and recrowned the barrel when he installed it.

After the rifle was rebarreled, I shot it in the rubber Winchester stock, and it was shooting right around 1-1/4 inches, which was about the same as the factory barrel it replaced. I went ahead an had Duane inlet and finish the Accrabond stock, after which I reshot the rifle. I shot three consecutive three shot groups, with the two hunting loads I normally use, 260-grain Nosler partitions at 2750 fps and 300-grain Hornady round noses at 2500 fps. All groups were 3/4-inch or less.

Obviously, there was nothing wrong with the barrel, and a barrel with a machined in rib will shoot. Why the other guy could not get the barrel to shoot is unknown, as his gun shot fine with the replacement barrel. It may have been the crown or the chamber, but based on all of the Wiebe guns I have shot, and the three I own, I would say that it was probably the nut behind the trigger that caused the problem. I suspect that he was dead set on one particular load and bullet, and could not get that combination to shoot for him. I am fortunate in that the two hunting loads that I use both shoot outstandingly in the gun.

Also, I do hunt with all of my guns, this .375 has been my primary elk rifle for about 14 years, and will continue to be so, only now it is pretty instead of pretty ugly.