The 'heavy' rifle for my recently completed safari was a newer Winchester Model 70 Safari Express in 375 H&H. The ammunition was 300 grain A-Frames loaded to spec OAL.
On my zebra hunt, I experienced a feeding failure that made me glad I wasn't hunting dangerous game. After putting the first shot into the zebra, I quickly cycled the bolt for a follow up shot (if necessary). For some reason, as the cartridge came up out of the magazine, it jammed steeply against the top of the chamber. I quickly tried to withdraw the bolt, at which point the cartridge slipped off of the ejector. This is all happening very fast. I decided to grab my 300 win mag, which we had (luckily) brought along in case of a long shot but the zebra had already run into the bush, denying me a follow up shot. Fortunately my first shot was 'true' and the zebra only ran about 100 yards.

The only thing I can think of the explain the 'failure' was that perhaps I cycled the action to fast, causing the round the 'leap' up out of the magazine?

Thoughts?

It's really sad to read these reports. The rifles that I know well and have cycled fast are the Garand, SKS and 99 Savage. These have never failed to feed or cycle. So it can be done.

The Savage 99's are CRF.

Well, Michael, you obviously haven't read all of the posts on this forum pointing out that it is impossible to jam a CRF action, that CRF actions always feed properly, and that no other type of action is fit to own. If you had, you would know that the jam you believe ocurred was a figment of your imagination and never actually happened.

The CRF action is a good one, as are most push-feeds. As you discovered, any action can malfunction. With yours, it is possible that the magazine follower points the cartridge too "high", and this combined with the rather blunt meplate of the A-frame bullet led to the jam.

Sorry about your poor luck, but glad that it didn't lead to the loss of your quarry (or some part of your anatomy).

If this happened later on in your safari, I'm not at all surprised, as a few days of shaking in a Landcruiser can cause certain parts that are key to proper feeding to come out of alignment, and I've had it happen on stock Model 70s (current ones) in African myself.

For starters, make sure that the magazine box follower spring (where it bends) is squarely behind the lip at the bottom of the follower, and that the bottom of the follower spring is solidly inserted into the milled recess of the floorpate. If the spring is out of position at either the top OR bottom, such feeding mishaps are common. Now there can be much more to your problem than that, but it's a solid place to start.

Quite honestly, the current Model 70 is not a fit African rifle as it comes out of the box. Finely-trained gunsmiths don't put these rifles together - parts assemblers do! There is MUCH that Winchester ISN'T doing to get the feeding down properly. For example, the extractor they imploy is NOT a true spring-steel extractor, as it should be. You can bend the current, injection-molded extractor with your own two hands and it will not spring back into position. This is a junk part, and it should be replaced, as should the magazine box and follower, etc.

Most African professional hunters use and recommend CRF feed rifles to their clients, and the Model 70 has been one of the top African rifles since just before WWII. CRF actions ARE more positive and reliable than push-feed actions, and that's the plain truth. Paul Mauser must have thought so as well since he abandon several early push-feed designs in favor of CRF designs culminating in his masterpiece, the Model 98. But they are only superior is they've been properly adjusted and put together.

Don, nobody is going to take a Savage 99 to Africa, especially for stuff like cape buffalo....

AD

[ 07-09-2002, 20:18: Message edited by: allen day ]

I'll add a bit more to my previous post. The smart long-term money is get a top riflesmiths to build a complete rifle and get all the bugs out the first time. As expensive as hunting is these days, it's a smart investment. There are guys
who are magicians at turning these current Model 70s into functional masterpieces, and there will be no more bugs or problems ever again once they perform their magic. D'Arcy Echols tops my list of these guys, but he only builds complete rifles and does no piecemeal work.

A smart alternative is to get in touch with Mark Penrod at (260)982-8385 or FAX: (260)982-1819. Mark can do just about anything and do it right, and he'll diagnose your problem and fix it properly the first time out. He's reasonable in price, a master craftsman, a man of integrity, and I've done business with him for years.

AD

Thanks for the info about Precision Metalsmithing. I'll be contacting them soon.

The zebra was quartering away from me at about 150 yards. The bullet entered just behind the rib cage and lodged in the opposite shoulder (no exit). (See 'My First Safari - Day 3' in the African Big Game Hunting forum for the full story).

I worked quite a bit with this rifle before my trip. I practiced in several postions; standing, kneeling, off of sticks, etc. I shot with a full magazine, empty magazine, quick follow ups, without a single problem.

I went on to shoot two more animals with the 375 on this hunt. In both cases the rifle fed flawlessly.

I am very thankful that this did not happen while hunting dangerous game, where such a failure could be fatal.

I will definitely look at replacing the extractor and follower, but will first give it to a good smith to work over, letting him make those decisions.

Thanks for the advice,
Michael

Michael, I posted a while ago with similiar problems, didn't get much response. My Win 70 safri express 416 rem would jam up as the bolt went forward on the second and subsequent rounds too. I found that the bottom of the bolt face was ground off to a sharp edge at the factory and never hand finished. It would gouge a curl of brass off the top round in the magazine and grind the bolt to a halt. I touched it lightly with a file and it helped but did not fully cure my problems. A replacement spring, follower, and extractor are on my list and a trip to a good bolt gun smith to put it together and smooth it out. What a disapointment with a new rifle to find that it could get you killed if you used it the way they advertise it as being suitable for. I would have gladly paid more at the start for a gun built right.

I have a love/hate relationship with my Winchester now. I did pay $900 for it new, which was a pretty good deal. Dollar for dollar, it's been a good deal. It was and still is extremely accurate. But, that accuracy is now countered by questionable feeding.

So, I will send it to a good smith and will probably end up spending $900 more having it cleaned up, properly bedded, etc. That would bring my total investment to $1800, which is still a great deal for a solid, light caliber, DGR.

This is why I chose a plains game hunt for my first safari! At least this way the suprises weren't deadly!

Does anyone have a phone number for replacement follower springs? If I fill my magazine the first round doesn't get picked up by the bolt. 2nd and 3rd shots are fine. I can stretch the spring to correct the problem, but only for a day or two. I want a new one!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I want it FAST, before I go to Namibia!

Mike.

Try Brownell's or PM enterprises. 361.748.3743

Try this people I have had great luck and there are fast

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/

Doc

Here's PME's website:

http://www.precisemetalsmithing.com/index.html

Regards,

Terry

Hot Core,

The story you referenced about the guy bending his 375 round is in the August 1999 issue (No. 200)of Handloader. It's the article about a 505 Gibbs, by Phil Shoemaker.

Steve

I got some seriously dented and nearly bent 375 H&H cartridges out of my M70. The rifle I sent back to Winchester, only to have it replaced with another defective rifle I sent back. I read the manual (Winchester Classic model 70's aren't CRF rifles in the same sense that pre-64 Winchesters were), and they approve of the push-feed mode, snapping the extractor over the rim, so I was cycling the bolt as if I needed that cartridge in the chamber. Good thing I didn't need it there, because it never got there, and neither did several others. Product service is working on my second rifle I sent back (needs new stock, barrel, receiver, floorplate, and some furniture and fine tuning). It's been over four months since I paid for the rifle, and I don't have one in my hands. The guy I was dealing with is no longer with the company, and the guy responsible for my rifle now is nearly impossible to reach. I wish I knew how to tell the actual Winchester that U. S. R. A. C. isn't doing the "Winchester" trademark any good.

H. C.

Thanks Steve, If I fouled the story up too bad, please correct it where I was wrong. Been too long for me to remember all the details.

I believe that was the "first" feed failure on a M70 (of the current generation) that I remember hearing about.

Thanks again.

I bought a M70 338 wm w/ the Boss, controlled feed rifle several years ago. Like yours, it's a very accurate and nice rifle, but wouldn't feed reliably. Took it to a local gunshop who Winchester lists as it's closest repair center. I think he replaced the follower spring and worked on the rails (not sure), but it did fix the problem. Picked up a used controled feed 22-250 feather weight last year. I haven't gotted this one fixed yet, but it has similar feeding problems. There was no charge on the 338, but I bought that one new.

Hot Core,

It was pure coincidence that I ran across the story. I had pulled that issue out to look at Ken Water's pet loads info for the 375 H&H, and read the 505 Gibbs story. The next day I ran across your post.

I have also had some severe feeding problems in a M70 Classic Compact in 7MM-08. It is amazing how much you can squish a case if you really try!