I think Paul H is correct.
During the last 15years i have Rockwell testet many both CroMo and SS barrels. Resulst
CroMo always betwen 25-30HrC
SS from 4-31HrC most in the area around 14-18HrC.


If a barrel is not fully finished internal, so you have to "break it inn" (you could as well call it "wear it in") Please tell me why a barrel that breaks inn easier, should not wear out faster?????

Also tell me what efect cleaning and copperremoval has on lifetime.
If cleaning/copperremoval between every shot speeds up "breaking/wearing inn", then think what efect Cleaning/copperremowal would have on normal barrelwear.


Also please come up with any statistic showing the difference in barrellife between the two types of steel. (best comparing test with same caliber, loads and scrap criteria)

Up till now i have never seen any showing an advantages for SS.
I have only heard rumors and heresay

One thing I know is those stainless Krieger barrels are really tough barrels.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
One thing I know is those stainless Krieger barrels are really tough barrels.

If i remember correctly a Krieger i tested, measured 31 HrC

Thanks jA_rgen! I 've been shooting that 308 Krieger like crazy.On a few occasions I shot a hundred rounds in less than a half an hour untill that barrel was really hot.It still keeps on grouping below an inch at 200 yards.That barrel does sure have a hard feel to it.It is nothing like my Remington Sendero and blackpowder stainless barrels which are soft as anything.They are so soft that I damaged them by short stroking a copper brush in their bores.If I ever need a big bore replacement barrel for my Cz rifles,I think I will go with a stainless Krieger.

Jorgen,
You might recognize this machine. It is in my shop. The stainless barrels that I have checked are Shilen, Lilja, Hart, Krieger, Bartlien, McMillan, Broughton, Rock, and Obermeyer barrels. I have not checked a 410 stainless that Krieger used for a while. The vast majority were from 24-28 RC. I have never found one less than 20 and none harder than 31.

I am not familiar with the ones made outside our borders or other brands made here.
Butch

quote:

Also tell me what efect cleaning and copperremoval has on lifetime.
If cleaning/copperremoval between every shot speeds up "breaking/wearing inn", then think what efect Cleaning/copperremowal would have on normal barrelwear.

The cleaning between shots is to remove the copper build-up that prevents the sharp edges being worn smooth by the following shot. That's all.

quote:

.429 May I ask how cold it was when the barrel peeled ?

That gun was brought into my shop about 7 yrs ago. It was a December hunt, not real cold + low 20's. I think that the barrel may have had snow in the last inch or so but there was almost no signs of the initial failure point. I just find it amazing how far these SS barrels can split when they fail. I don't think I have ever seen a CM barrel opened that far. The kicker on this one is he said he killed the deer with the shot.

The Browning was acouple of years earlier and showed a swell started about 3-4 inches from the muzzle. The ends of the Browning were forked as it was failing in four pieces not two. Temperature was in the high +30's-low 40's.

quote:

Originally posted by .429:
Note the rust on the split Savage barrel.

Barrel says A-bolt.
Cheers...
Con

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:

quote:

Also tell me what efect cleaning and copperremoval has on lifetime.
If cleaning/copperremoval between every shot speeds up "breaking/wearing inn", then think what efect Cleaning/copperremowal would have on normal barrelwear.

The cleaning between shots is to remove the copper build-up that prevents the sharp edges being worn smooth by the following shot. That's all.

If correctly understood.
A totaly clean barrel wears more, pr shot, until fouled a little

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Jorgen,
You might recognize this machine. It is in my shop. The stainless barrels that I have checked are Shilen, Lilja, Hart, Krieger, Bartlien, McMillan, Broughton, Rock, and Obermeyer barrels. I have not checked a 410 stainless that Krieger used for a while. The vast majority were from 24-28 RC. I have never found one less than 20 and none harder than 31.

I am not familiar with the ones made outside our borders or other brands made here.
Butch

I dont know if Shilen has changed steeltype, but 10 years ago i regularly tested many of those, and they all showed 14-16 hrc.

The Rockwell tester we have is an older type, with a Clock indicator, instead of your digital read out.

Far be it from me to raise the BS flag as I wasn't there but do you really believe the bullet

could actually travel with any degree of accuracy by looking at that thing ! ???.

Someone was pulling the Wool over You with a yarn like that at least that would be my take on it .

I could see if the barrel had 4-5 inches of snow packed into it and it was froze solid

something like that happening . I can and have seen CM barrels blow up with dirt packed into them .

I was in Africa several years back hunting in Zambia near Rhodesian border .

I was a rookie and went on an invite met some nice folks , any way raining like nothing I

had ever experienced before MUD MUD MUD so gooey it near pulled your knee socket out walking .

Dam Rovers stuck too the Hilt . Guide makes base camp we set out two days as new rivers

form through camp ,the bright side NO BUGS ! Nothing Else either .

Except good food drink and conversation . Well we hook up with another stranded hunting party

swapping tales of our fishing the thickets those prior days . One of those fellows in the other

party spies a Huge Eland we stay back . Guide two trackers and both hunters move for a quartering

shot near as I could tell ( 45-65 meters back so guessing )

I hear what is not a kaboom but a awful thud sounding BAM ,I then see the tracker drop Hunter

is on his back and side Guide is calling out to us now . We respond one of our trackers is

unpacking first aid kit as we're running forward . A literal bloody mess hunter is screaming

with face wounds tracker is bleeding profusely . Everybody has got their hands on or in the

blood . After the bleeding is arrested my guide scampers off to grab the Rover and radio .

A fine Dbl. barrel is in pieces as is the stock .Everything is picked up after my guide gets back

and takes a couple of pictures . Were on our way too the nearest village or hospital or where

ever ?. I received a letter from my guide a couple of months after that, they later determined

that the poor chap had stuck it in the mud . While he did wipe it off he failed to check the bore !.

He never unloaded the rifle to clear the bore !.

Mine wear condoms if snow or mud or nasty blowing dirt is a factor ALWAYS ALWAYS COVER THE BORE

with something which is flimsy and the pressure will literally blow way .

Before the bullet arrives !!!.

quote:

Originally posted by .429:


If the pictures came through....
I don't know that cold weather aids in SS "blowing up" but it does seem that failures occur at a greater rate than CM. Typical of what I've seen is the metal seems to tear easier once the a failure occurs regardless of the initial cause.

I saw one identical here in Norway at my friend and gunsmith Herman Erdal's shop. Same gun, same failure - but there was no snow when the incident happened, and about 30 degrees Farenheith.

Doc,
Bent is correct as several have had that problem and a recall came about because of it.
Butch

That's the last time I buy a stainless barrel.I think I'll go with another chrome molly Krieger.Once shot a caribou with it and swear it went down faster than anything I ever shot.After 15 years of caribou hunting,it's the only one that hangs on my wall.

butchlambert
one of us

Posted 14 December 2008 04:28 Hide Post
Doc,
Bent is correct as several have had that problem and a recall came about because of it.
Butch

Posts: 2008 | Location: Poetry, Texas | Registered: 28 November 2004

Butch I wasn't questioning the failure of the metal . Only the shot accuracy , LOOK at that barrel

I am perfectly aware of the recalls on SS rifles . Yet manufactures are producing them NOW

without problems in Magnums no less .

As I own several SS rifles and pistols and it was necessary for me to turn two back into their

respective manufactures for NEW SS replacements . Those used the WRONG GRADE of SS .

I sincerely hope they're all on the same Metallurgical page by now .

By way while on this subject of SS did Browning ever have a recall on it's stalkers ?.

Doc,
I read you to mean that it only happened with something in the barrel. I guess I need to reread your post.
Butch

If I implied anything other than the questioning of the accuracy of that shot from that barrel .

I mistakenly mis wrote . Minus 20 or 20 degrees isn't squat but -60 is fairly nippy least wise

in my book . There should be a SEVER WARNING label or disclaimer on SS if that problem

should still exist . At least one would sure as hell hope so . They print Crap all over the

barrels about not putting the hole end in your face and pulling the trigger, reading all the manuals

before removing from the box .

I haven't heard of any Browning SS recalls and I own a couple of those , Earlier ones to boot .

I have yet to see any post on them , so that's why I asked on my last posting .

To clear any confusion of my postings SOUND ME on them . I make mistakes and admit to them .

This one hit nothing with the shot. Note the swell about 4" from the muzzle. The Savage started peeling from the muzzle and the shot was not far. I have no reason to doubt the veracity of the owner who made the shot.

Sometimes,trying to save money can be dangerous.

So, the split begins at the muzzle end and extends back towards the breach? That last pic would suggest something in the bore at the time of firing! I have heard of a Lee Enfield splitting the entire length of the barrel from firing with a pull-through cord being left in the bore. (This came from a gunsmith who did not himself leave the pull-through cord in the bore and fire the gun - that is what he was told happened to the gun). There was no SS nor extreme cold involved.

The Browning pic shows a very obvious spot where the obstruction was, 4" from the muzzle. That was where the split started.
The Savage barrel looked to me when I examined it to probably have had snow in the last inch and the failure started right at the muzzle. There were no swells anywhere on the Savage barrel and almost no visible marks at the muzzle.
I just had someone e-mail me a picture of a CM barreled Savage that had been fired with a bore sighter spud in the barrel. Split four ways back to the beginning of the fore end. Apparently there was some bleeding with that one.

Here's a CM barrel notice any similarities ?.

I also posted the reason for it's demise and it wasn't cold weather either !.

This apparently happen while someone was sighting in a rifle and failed

to remove the Bore Site !. As the story goes he was Hospitalized !.

I would imagine that a barrel that split due the embrittlement of the steel at low temperature would not fail at the muzzle end where the pressure is lowest. Furthermore, if brittle fracture had occurred then the barrel would not have pealed open - it would have broken off. Unless it was warmed very quickly throughout its thickness by the passage of the bullet and hot gasses, in which case, it shouldn't have split at all.

"Here's a CM barrel notice any similarities ?."

I think that the differences are more to be noted. The CM stopped at half way and the stainless splits full length.
The pictures don't list the caliber, the SS barrels were both 300WinMag. Pressure differences may make a difference in the length of the split but that's only speculation on my part.
I still suspect that once a failure occurs that the SS tears more easily. I doubt that a barrel maker will want to weigh in on that.

Exactly as I asked notice any similarities ?.

Your observation is correct look closely Notice in your example how the Barrel Peeled

side too side . In the CM it peeled like a Banana and stopped short of destroying the stock .

While the SS blew the composite stock apart even though it peeled side too side ,

rather than downward most curious !. I wasn't privileged to observe this personally

or know the caliber a friend sent the range pictures too me .

That is a SS A Bolt 300 Win Mag Browning or a Savage ?. I was unaware that Savage

stamped A Bolt on their barrels . I shall have to look at mine more closely .



I can find no posting of any recalls or problems relating too their SS Rifles

The picture of the gun that was being held by the owner is a Savage 300 Win Mag. Browning is also same caliber. Both split full length breaking the synthetic stocks.

Both the Ruger stainless M-77 and their stainless mini-14's are as common as snowballs in interior Alaska and are routinely used in temps below minus 40 (and I'm sure much colder as well). I have never heard of any failures with them.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Both the Ruger stainless M-77 and their stainless mini-14's are as common as snowballs in interior Alaska and are routinely used in temps below minus 40 (and I'm sure much colder as well). I have never heard of any failures with them.

Love it roger