I have a Win. M70 LA, factory sporter barrel w/Holland's break, Jewell trigger, Choate USS stock w/Harris pod.

Its chambered in .30-06. I want to go to .30-06AI. I have a barrel vise and action wrench.

My question is: Can I ream the chamber by hand or is this a lathe only operation?

Thanks, Bobby

The headspace on the AI is a touch shorter than the STD. A STD in an AI should be a crush fit. To properly rechamber to AI you need to set the barrel back. In the M70 due to the extractor cut that will be a full turn.

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In the M70 due to the extractor cut that will be a full turn.

That will also require deepening the extractor the equivelant of one thread's pitch. This really is a lathe/milling job for setting the barrel back and recutting the extractor slot. You could cut the extractor slot deeper by careful filing but it is a tedious job. A qulaified smith could do all of that far easier and with less frustration.

Or, you could just cut the chamber until the original neck/shoulder junction is cleaned up and then neck up you '06 cases to .338 and progressively neck them back down until they will just allow you to close the bolt with heavy feel. After they're fireformed, you just have to make sure that you don't set the shoulder back when re-sizing. This is what wildcatting is all about anyway.

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After they're fireformed, you just have to make sure that you don't set the shoulder back when re-sizing. This is what wildcatting is all about anyway

Yep it is then a true wildcat not an AI so only fire fireformed cases don't fire STD 06 ammo in it.

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Yep it is then a true wildcat not an AI so only fire fireformed cases don't fire STD 06 ammo in it.

ramrod340 is right. If you want to be able to fire standard 'o6 ammo in it, you'll have to set it back and that is the best of both worlds.

If you do decide to go the true wildcat route make sure you properly mark the barrel so that the next owner doesn't try to fire an 06 in it. It MAY work ok but it also MAY NOT. By "MAY NOT" I mean head separations.

Ray

First of all, thanks for your input.

Ok, I need to explain more.

-I want to be able to fire STD 06 in a pinch.

-This is a factory barrel: ~150 rounds factory and ~300 handloads down the tube. From what I understand a factory will last ~1000-1500 rounds?

-Looking at new barrels, trying to find out what I need and what I want to make a good choice. Price range for new barrel installed, $1000-$1500.

Is it worth the time to get it done right, I think what ya'll are saying is this is not a DIY without a machine shop or at least a lathe, or just wait and put that money into the new tube.

Bobby

If you want to be able to fire std rounds in a pinch then it is not a DIY. IDT can install and blue a Douglas barrel to your action for around $300. http://itdcustomgun.com/index.html

Speaking as a guy who has and currently owns numerous AIs and designed his own 06(actually 280) based wildcat case which gives over twice the increase of the AI and more capacity than the Hawk or Gibbs. If you want the AI for a velocity increase save your money. At equal pressure you will gain 1% velocity for 4% powder. If you want one to simply have one. Go for it but do it RIGHT. There is no way I would spend the money on the factory barrel.

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Originally posted by cjaholic:
-This is a factory barrel: ~150 rounds factory and ~300 handloads down the tube. From what I understand a factory will last ~1000-1500 rounds?

-Looking at new barrels, trying to find out what I need and what I want to make a good choice. Price range for new barrel installed, $1000-$1500.
Bobby

More like 4-5000 rounds for a hunting 30-06, your number would be more what a match shooter would consider as shot out.

$400 will get you a top of the line SS barrel, most are in the $175-250 range, and add maybe another $250 to have it threaded, chambered and blued. That's a long way from your 1-1,500 figgure. What smith is quoting you that kind of price, and what is he planning to do besides a re-barrel?

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Originally posted by Tailgunner:

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Originally posted by cjaholic:
-This is a factory barrel: ~150 rounds factory and ~300 handloads down the tube. From what I understand a factory will last ~1000-1500 rounds?

-Looking at new barrels, trying to find out what I need and what I want to make a good choice. Price range for new barrel installed, $1000-$1500.
Bobby

More like 4-5000 rounds for a hunting 30-06, your number would be more what a match shooter would consider as shot out.

$400 will get you a top of the line SS barrel, most are in the $175-250 range, and add maybe another $250 to have it threaded, chambered and blued. That's a long way from your 1-1,500 figgure. What smith is quoting you that kind of price, and what is he planning to do besides a re-barrel?

I didn't get any quotes yet, thats just what I have to spend on a barrel. Dont take that the wrong way, I just love to shoot and spend all avalible money on guns and reloading.

This is what I've been looking at:
Hart - $294.99
Krieger - $303.99
Lilja - $325.99
Shilen - $249.99

I want the bolt lugs laped at the time of install and a muzzle brake.

I dont remember where I saw that barrel life figure, glad to see its longer that I thought.

I've been shooting and reloading for about 6-7 yrs. but never got into the mod's. Its all I want to do now, just loving it.

Thanks for all the opinions!

Bobby

Oh, and its not really a hunting rifle any more. More like a hotrod, bought a savage 110 7mm Rem. Mag. for hunting.

OK, there is a good gunsmith on Dixie Hwy, just north of I-75 (exit 93), all he does is repairs/metalwork. He's a bit of a charictor (what else would you expect from someone with a DUWK and a LCT parked out front?), and his internal work is top notch, but dispite making chips 40-45 hours a week he stays backlogged by about 6 months (his volume is that heavy). Side note, he likes Ackley's. There are other smiths around, but I haven't personaly delt with them.

You will get a bigger velocity/accuracy gain from having a minimum chamber/tight throat than you will from the increased capacity of a -06AI, but the AI has a certain style/charm all it's own.

BTW, the smith I mentioned above has a very effective 2 stage brake that he designed/builds, turns 30-06 recoil into 223 recoil.

My best rifle is a 257 Roberts Ackley improved that In 2001 I headspaced like a 257 Roberts. Mistake. I would have liked it .004" shorter.

An Ackley chamber only supports factory brass from the push from a firing pin at a sharp ring at the base of the neck. This will crush .004" and then the pressure will cause the brass to grab the walls and stretch. This stretch can cause the brass to crack.

You can live with an Ackley .004" too long, I do. The fireforming must be done in two steps.

I have done hundreds of experiments to find the best way to fire form with an Ackley headspaced like a non Ackley, and here is my advice:
1) Lube up the case with high pressure withstanding lubricant; Moly grease or moly bore paste
2) Load up the case with 10 gr pistol powder and back fill with Cream of Wheat cereal.
3) With no bullet, fire the round pointed toward the sky. If you cannot fire straight up, cap the mouth with Ivory soap bar to keep the cereal in the case. If any cereal leaks into the chamber, your brass will look like leprosy.
4) Now the shoulder is 1/2 formed and can stand up to the firing pin push. Load with an Ackley load and bullet and shoot at the range. Expect full power and accuracy, but the brass still looks like hell.
5) You now have perfectly formed Ackley brass .004" long to fit your chamber. Inspect the brass and load it up for hunting.


What does it all mean?
Yes you can just ream out a factory chamber and make it Ackley improved, but the time and money you save up front will be offset by having to do two step fire forming.

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You can live with an Ackley .004" too long, I do. The fireforming must be done in two steps.

The only real issue you have with running the AI reamer into the STD chamber is the headspace is a touch long. Like you say just form your cases and it works fine. You just lose the "safe" ability to fire STD cases.

My main wildcat case is a blown out shouder forward 280 case. I move the shoulder forward around .06". I simply neck the case up to a larger dia then form a false shoulder load and fire. Sharp shoulder in one step.

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Originally posted by Tailgunner:
OK, there is a good gunsmith on Dixie Hwy, just north of I-75 (exit 93), all he does is repairs/metalwork. He's a bit of a charictor (what else would you expect from someone with a DUWK and a LCT parked out front?), and his internal work is top notch, but dispite making chips 40-45 hours a week he stays backlogged by about 6 months (his volume is that heavy). Side note, he likes Ackley's. There are other smiths around, but I haven't personaly delt with them.

You will get a bigger velocity/accuracy gain from having a minimum chamber/tight throat than you will from the increased capacity of a -06AI, but the AI has a certain style/charm all it's own.

BTW, the smith I mentioned above has a very effective 2 stage brake that he designed/builds, turns 30-06 recoil into 223 recoil.

Bruce McArthur of Flint and Frizzen gunshop, I talked to him two days ago!

Now that I think about it I only wanted to still be able to fire STD. incase I needed some ammo while hunting away from home. I guess its not a big deal now that I have a 7mm for hunting. And the cereal shooting sounds fun, the neighbors sit in there back yard and watch us shoot in the pasture. They would get a kick out of it.

It sounds like this would decrease case life.

Thanks

Bobby

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Now that I think about it I only wanted to still be able to fire STD. incase I needed some ammo while hunting away from home.

If you are just wanting something unique to play around with and firing STD is no longer an issue. Then I would go full wildcat. Doesn't really cost any more (maybe a couple $$ for dies) Run a Gibbs or Howell die in your rifle or start from new with a Gibbs, Hawk, Howell etc.

As to factory ammo I have hunted for almost 30 years with one wildcat or another. From the lower 48 to Alaska and Africa and needing factory ammo has never been an issue.

Bobby
While I live "up north" now, I grew up in Drayton Plains (now Waterford) and currently work in Troy.
Yep, Bruce is who I was refering to, I've been using his services since the mid 70's.

Now, to plant another idea in your head, have you considered the 30 Gibbs? Think of a Ackley on steroids. That one definatly takes 2 fireforming steps to make however, and firing factory 30-06 ammo is not a option.

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30 Gibbs? Think of a Ackley on steroids

Yep the Gibbs will add over twice as much case volume as the AI. If you are interested I can send an article by email. My email is ramrod340@hotmail.com. My case is basically a Gibbs built on a 280 case with a 40deg vs 35 deg shoulder and maybe just a touch forward. I have no trouble forming in one step. Like I've said neckup then form a false shoulder. Load a med heavy load of a med-fast powder and fire.

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Originally posted by ramrod340:

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30 Gibbs? Think of a Ackley on steroids

Yep the Gibbs will add over twice as much case volume as the AI. If you are interested I can send an article by email. My email is ramrod340@hotmail.com. My case is basically a Gibbs built on a 280 case with a 40deg vs 35 deg shoulder and maybe just a touch forward. I have no trouble forming in one step. Like I've said neckup then form a false shoulder. Load a med heavy load of a med-fast powder and fire.

Sent you an email.

The Gibbs sounds pretty cool, just did alot of research on them. So I could take a 8mm-06 die and neck size the case, then run it through the Gibbs die to create the false shoulder and fireform in one step?

Thanks

Bobby

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The Gibbs sounds pretty cool, just did alot of research on them. So I could take a 8mm-06 die and neck size the case, then run it through the Gibbs die to create the false shoulder and fireform in one step?

That is one option. Or since you have the 06 die get an 8mm or 338 expander. Tapered is better. They should enter the 06 case. If not I have placed the shaft in my drill press turned it on and hit the bottom with a file to reduce it down. Expand the neck then remove the larger expander and use your 06 die to form the false shoulder. Load and fire. After you have fireformed several cases have a set of dies made to fit your chamber. That way you know it will match. Hornady will make you a sizer for around $92 and you should be able to use the 06 seater. Others make custom dies I've just used Hornady the last couple I had done.

I emailed you the article.