I have a .270 Remington BDL that has a live round stuck in the chamber. I should've discarded a batch of cases that were reloaded when they should've been thrown out. None the less I have to get this live round out of this rifle. I have tried to tamp it out with a cleaning rod but that only slightly moved the round. I think further tamping is flatting the grand slam bullet that is in the case.(I used several precautions before doing so. I flipped a bench made of 2X6 on its side & set the rifle up behind it. Wore a face shield, etc..) I believe I will have to remove the barrel to get to the case. Any suggestions would be helpful.

I made up a simple tool to deal with a live round in the chamber. It is a piece of an old rifle barrel about 6 inches long. Chucked in the lathe and opened up at one end just a bit too small to let the cartridge head enter. Then split this end with the hack saw, spread it open enough to fit over the head of the stuck cartridge but first drill a cross hole in the split portion and thread one side so that a short bolt can pull the slit ends tight on the case head. Also run some threads into the other end of this tool so when it is fastened to the case head you can use a bolt and washers to pull on the case as the wrench is applied. It worked real slick for me and didn't take much longer than typing this message. I'm a two finger slow typist.

Of course this only works for bolt action rifles where the bolt is removeable. I'll bet some one has a better idea than this . Hope this encourages them to reveal it.

I'm curious as to why the bolt would not pull the round. Did you force the bolt forward on the round when it resisted chambering? This happened on a BR rifle next to me once during a match. The shooter had tried to chamber a case that had been fired in a different chamber. He pulled on the bolt so hard that the extractor was pulled out of the bolt. (Rem 308 bolt face on PPC case) Another shooter who had a Rem. action but, with a Sako extractor, pulled the stuck round by inserting the bolt enough to grab the rim and then tapping the bolt handle with a mallet. I know of a BR shooter that was killed when his wife was driving the cleaning rod down the muzzle and the live round fired and ejected through the rear of the action striking him in the abdomen.

Jclayton, your description of your live cartridge puller is pretty clear, but please post a picture of it also.

Maybe you could patent the thing, since stuck live rounds happen often!

Thanks!

jclayton: Your tool sounds like a great idea.

The method I've used before is as follows:
1. Take the barrel off.
2. Hold the barrel in a barrel vise. Make sure that no body parts get in front or behind the barrel.
3. Drill a small hole in front of the rim so that WD-40 can be sprayed in to kill the primer; I don't think you can kill today's primers this way but I did it anyway.
4. Put a pair of vise grips on the case, and try to turn it out. You may need to pry it out.

Glad I'm not in your position! As posted, removing the barrel is the safest way. However, here is what I would do if I had to do it myself and didn't have an action wrench handy-

Remove the action from the stock, remove bolt and trigger, take into garage and put on a piece of plywood with muzzle pointing up and a 1/4 steel rod in it, measure how high the end of the rod is then screw or bolt a piece of 2X4 to a joist on the wall and use that as a lever to press down on the rod, and press the round out. Like you did, I'd put something with mass between me and the action.

Also, I'd experiment with a loaded round first, namely I'd put your powder charge in an uncrimped bullet and see if I could press the bullet past the neck and into the case. If so I'd put some water into the barrel with the steel rod, and after it compressed 3/4" or whatever remove the rod and let it soak for a while. Of course, if you can do that you can pound away with a hammer too, but it isn't much more effort to hammer a 2X4 into a joist with a 10 penny nail.

Leif,

Why can't you just fire the round?

George

I second GeorgeS's question. Also, it sounds like you might be overcomplicating the situation. If you put a cleaning rod down the barrel and it moved, just tap harder. Tapping on the bullet end of the round is not going to cause the round to fire, especially if the bolt is out of the gun, so I guess I don't understand why everyone is acting like this has to be treated so delicately. I could be missing something, but if it were me I would just oil the bore well, put a dowel down the bore and drive that thing out of there and be done with it.

That's my $.02 anyway.

I'm thinking that that is what I would do also is pull the bolt, squirt some oil down the barrel, put a 1/4" hardwood dowl down the bore and smack it with a mallet. Is the bullet just seated out too far?

I've heard that impacts will set off powder - not the primer, but the plain powder. Even use of one of those cheap hammer-shaped impact bullet pullers has (supposedly) been known to set off a live round. I'm not sure I would pound anything down the bore unless I was well out of harm's way! maxman

I wouldn't worry too much about impact setting off the powder. I've knocked many rounds silly with my Quinetics impact bullet puller, and one has yet to explode. If you're worried about this take it to a gunsmith. He can yank the barrel in no time, retrieve your round and possibly give you a good explanation as to why it happened.
I have a flat end tip for my cleaning rod. A good whomp usually frees anything that's hung up. As a precaution remove the bolt first. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

Actually, with a live cartridge firmly stuck in the chamber, tapping on the bullet with a rod down the barrel and the bolt out is very dangerous.



It CAN and sometimes WILL fire the round. When it does, the cartridge case is usually what moves...it goes back out through the action and with great force into whatever is behind the action.



There have been two instances in the past few years of this happening at bench-rest matches. In one (mentioned in an above post) the shooter was struck in the abdomen by the case, and died as a result of the injury. In the other, it was his wife who was struck IIRC, but a severe injury was the result, not death.



If its really, really stuck, pull the barrel and pull or pry the unfired cartridge out.



AC

I would be hitting on the bullet end of that round. Ever heard of "heat of compression." You might learn what it is the hard way.

Like I said - that's just what I have heard. Any information to the contrary is actually good news. Maybe I'll be less nervous when using mine! maxman

Thanks for all the input, & your concern for my well being is appreciated. This all started a few weeks ago when I was rapid fire shooting at some coyotes, the stuck round felt tight going in the chamber but in the heat of the moment I pushed the bolt with all I had and torqued the lugs with the palm of my hand. After that it was game over, the bolt was engaged at about 45 degrees or so. I pulled on the bolt trying to extract the round and it popped off the case. A friend of mine who is a gunsmith near Grand Junction who has a hydraulic set up to extract stuck live rounds, it sounds interesting & I will tell you all about it in a couple of days.

What confuses much of this discussion is the way the US Department of Transport classifies black and smokeless rifle powders.



Because of its ease of ignition, particularly from heat or static electricity, Black Powder is classified as a low explosive. Because smokeless powder takes a more vigorous source to ignite it, it is classified as a Class B Propellant.



BUT, those terms ONLY apply for shipping purposes!



In actual fact, Black Powder is not a true explosive, but a "low" explosive which works by deflagration not detonation, while smokelss powder (nitrocellulose) is both a low explosive and a high explosive which may work by either deflagration (as a low explosive) or detonation (as a high explosive), depending on how it is ignited.



Ignition of nitrocellulose by flame will generally cause it to deflagrate (burn), while ignition by shock will cause it to detonate (change chemically & instantly to gas, throughout the body of the explosive, without burning).



I know many folk believe otherwise, but I refer you to the Canadian Industries Limited "Blaster's Handbook". C.I.L. produces much of the Black Powder (and many of the other explosive agents) used in Canada.



The same information may be found in the M.I.T. basic textbook in its course work for explosives engineers, i.e., "The Chemistry of Powder & Explosives", by Tenney L. Davis.



Low explosives work by burning rapidly enough to produce enough gas to explode the container in which they find themselves...whether it be a cartridge case, a bore hole in rock or any other closely confined space. The rate of burning is dependent on the rate at which heat can be transfered from one grain of black powder to the next.



High explosives actually explode themselves...and anything else in which they are contained if enough is used to overcome the strength of the container. This rate of explosion is determined by the rate at which "shock", not "heat", can be communicated through the whole...a very much faster process, which in the case of fulminate of mercury, for instance, reaches about 3,500 meters per second.



One of the main problems in developing the original smokeless powders was learnng how to slow the explosion of guncotton to where it could remain a deflagrant rather than detonate. Before that was first achieved in 1864 by Captain Schulze of the Prussian Artillery, nitrocellulose (gun cotton) and other nitrated carbohydrates had been known for almost 100 years but despite numerous tries by various European governments, could not be sufficiently controlled to keep from blowing up cannon, let alone small arms.



To overcome the problems of rapid transition from deflagration to detonation, nitrocellulose was colloided with various ether-alcohol solutions, kneaded into a stiff jelly, rolled into thin sheets, then cut into small squares...what today we would call smokeless flake powder.

Later it was extruded into "stick" powder, coated with burning inhibitors, and glazed with graphite.



At any rate, the point is, shock can detonate smokeless powders.



In the early 1960's, Guns magazine (IIRC) did a series of tests with containers of Dupont IMR powders. Shooting into a large keg of smokless at 100 yards with a .30-06 caused the keg to detonate, not burn. So the experiment was followed with a small keg. It also detonated, whereupon 1-lb cans of IMR powder were tried. Some, but not all, of them detonated too....



As a rule of thumb, one should not pound on smokeless powder.



AC

which is what I heard some time ago, and since stopped using my impact bullet puller.... maxman

I just shoot them. If your sure it's the right cartridge and the bolt will close then fire it off.

I have done this and it works very well. The case should come right out then.

I don't understand? Can you not close the bolt on this cartridge? If you can't then you will have to get it removed. If you can, then just fire it like a couple others have said.

pound the bolt closed with your shoe, fire the round?
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I can't get the bolt closed.

If it were a stuck case because it were not FL sized for instance and the bolt would close I would fire it. I broke the extractor on a push feed M 70 due to that. But I was able to close the bolt and fire it.

It's possible that something else is wrong. I have seen 7mm bullets mixed in 6.5 boxes for instance.

Maybe it's time to buy yourself an action wrench and learn to take barrels off and put them back on? Midway and Brownells lists them. Get a headspace gage while your at it.

A good demonstration of this is to put a book of paper matches on top of a fence post, and whack it with a sledge hammer. Matches burn politely when used as prescribed - but react quite differently when impacted.

Wear ear plugs.

Every farm kid I've ever known has tried this one a few times!

Dang!

You learn something new everyday!

(have to pick up some paper matches later!)