I posted this under the big bore section but thought some of the smiths here might be able to help weigh in too.

I'm curious whether there are significant dimensional differences between the more recent 404 Jeffery Kynamco ammo vs Hornady? A member suggested emailing Hornady and Kynamco for cartridge prints which I'll do.

I'll be looking at a rifle which may have had it's chamber cut to the Kynamco--don't know if CIP specs were standardized, what reamers were being used, etc in the last 10+ years when I'm guessing this particular rifle was put together.

If there are differences, I'm wondering if they'll be significant enough to affect feeding and whether it would make sense to recut chamber to the easily available and cheap Hornady/ current CIP specs vs fireforming and having custom dies made?

I guess taking a Cerrosafe chamber cast is the first step. I'll have some of the Kynamco loaded ammo to try out, but not sure if I can get my hands on factory Hornady ammo within the inspection period for the rifle. It comes with about 20 rounds of Kynamco ammo so not a large number and stock RCBS dies; I don't believe the rifle has been run yet and not sure if original build specs are known. It is reported to feed fine with the Kynamco.

This is unchartered territory for me as far as this caliber/situation goes and really appreciate any input.

Thanks,
Bill

quote:

Originally posted by vagrouser:
I'm curious whether there are significant dimensional differences between the more recent 404 Jeffery Kynamco ammo vs Hornady?

I'll be looking at a rifle which may have had it's chamber cut to the Kynamco--

Rifles, and DRG rifles in particular, because they must function well under all conditions, are chambered to gauge specifications and not to any particular manufacturer of ammo. Same with loading dies. Hornady boats it's ammo will work well in ALL rifles. I would be more concerned about the fit of someones handloads for this chamber than any factory round.

Thanks Westpac. Am I correct then in thinking that the most sensible thing would be to source a go gauge (or just use a factory loaded Hornady round as a surrogate) when evaluating this rifle? Spring for a no go gauge too to make sure it wasn't cut dangerously oversize? I've read about there being two variations of the 404J-the "original" 10.75x73 vs the "new" standard as loaded by Hornady, et al.

TIA,
Bill

And you want a go gauge to be sure it is not undersize, which is not likely in a good factory rifle but could occur in a custom.

Undersize chamber: Those Safari rounds might not go in the chamber. Real important when you are watching that wounded Cape Buff and trying to reload with ammo found in the Land Rover!

So do not use a cartridge for a real check, use the guages. All the makers cartridges are not identical in dimensions.

No benchrest chambers for DG rifles!

Thanks guys-all makes good sense. I haven't called them yet to see if available, but found a place (Elk Ridge/reamerental) that will rent the go and no go gauges for $5. Seems cheap and easy for a one time check.
Bill

A go/no go gauge is great for letting you know if the headspace is in spec, but, I would also want something to check the dimensions of my loaded ammo prior to going into the field, so I would want a case gauge. Not only does it check your ammo, but it also allows you to check anyone else's loads before placing it in your rifle.

My last two .404 Jefferys have been by Jeffery and by Musgrave (South Africa). Both have easily removable firing pins.

If I was going to Africa soon, I would already have my ammo, and I would run every single round of it through the action of whichever rifle I was going to take (today that would be the Musgrave). Naturally I would remove the firing pin before doing that...and I would be careful to put it back immediately after the ammo passed the test.

I don't care what any gauges told me, cycling the actual ammo to be used is the acid test for me.

Westpac and Alberta-thank you both for the tips. I have no reason to think that there is anything nonstandard at all about this rifle and as far as I anticipate, it should work out great. I do note from the seller's description that the sights were never filed in and the inside of the action is "in the white"--this tells me that someone received the completed rifle and simply didn't get around to getting it up and running, or b) had feeding or chambering probs, etc that precluded the former. It is obviously the latter scenario I'm hoping to catch during the inspection period. I was reassured by the seller that it feeds flawlessly with the supplied factory Kynamco, which will be easy enough to verify. I'm just trying to make sure I don't make an unpleasant discovery the first time I can get to the range.
Assuming all checks out, I will be shooting and putting this rifle through its paces thoroughly along the lines of what both of you have suggested before it gets close to being deemed a candidate for a DG hunt.

I don't have pics right now, but the rifle is a full custom by Winston Elrod on a pre-64 M70 c. 1950 H&H action, drop magazine, custom bottom metal. It has dual cross bolts, 22" bbl with banded sling swivel and front sight, island rear sight, pleasing straight-grained stock built along classic English lines. Pretty much how I would've ordered one up in the first place. I found a phone # for Winston Elrod, but calls are not going through-I wanted to see if he remembered this rifle. I am not sure if he is still alive?

One of the concerns I had was that Elrod (or whomever) had tweaked the feeding using the Kynamco--I plan on reloading for the rifle and even shooting factory would go for the reasonably priced Hornady nowadays. The Kynamco stuff is an absurd ~$10/round. Figuring that the rifle was prob built in the last 10+ years the Kynamco may have been the only available factory ammo and I'm guessing was what was used to test feeding. Hence my curiosity over the dimensional differences between the 2 brands.

Bill

quote:

One of the concerns I had was that Elrod (or whomever) had tweaked the feeding using the Kynamco--I plan on reloading for the rifle and even shooting factory would go for the reasonably priced Hornady nowadays. The Kynamco stuff is an absurd ~$10/round

On a DG hunt, the ammunition is your cheapest investment, much like Kodachrome 64 film back when we made pictures without pixels.

It should be easy to make a Cerrosafe cast of your chamber. The micrometer does not lie.

The gun maker may be able to tell you where he got his reamer. That may lead to a reamer print, and more information.

Guys,
Thanks for your collective help. Picked up the rifle tonight and it is much better than I had even hoped for.

Removed the firing pin and cycled Hornady factory ammo (solids and softs) well over a hundred times-slow, fast, upside down, etc, etc. with perfect feeding. Checks out on the gauges, too. 4 down in the drop magazine, plus one in the chamber.

Already love this one! Winston Elrod builds a hell of a nice rifle. Plan to post some pics under the Big Bore forum.

Bill

vagrouser -

Your rifle sounds great so far. The next thing I would do before going on a dangerous game hunt, is something you can do while sighting it in. That is, fill your magazine and cycle it as close as you can to just like you would when hunting in Africa with it. Is always nice to see how it cycles and ejects those just fired empties....whether they are a little sticky in the chamber, if you have a scope whether they clear the scope nicely or not, those sorts of things. It is good to take care of any problems there, before you leave home for the dark continent.

And though it is highly unlikely, it is nice to see if anything notable happens to the accuracy (or the functioning) when you fire 5 rounds (or 4, whatever) through it fast. Sure, that takes an extra bit of expensive ammo, but it just might uncover some minor thing which can be corrected easily and save a much more precious butt before any danger arises.

Oh, and last unsolicited advice...I'd be sure to sight it in from my anticipated most common field shooting position, NOT the bench at the local range....for me that would probably be offhand at 65 yards. Then once I had it sighted in there, I'd check it for impact points at 15, 40, and 100 yards. And if I had the time, at 150 and 200 yards too. Probably wouldn't need that latter info with your .404, but one never can tell.

Hope you have a trip filled with unexpected delights, success, and ultimately a happy one.

AC

Hi AC,

Thanks for the great advice-I certainly plan on heeding it. Your point about making sure ejected brass clears the scope is a good one-I had a low mount Redfield on a deer rifle that would tend to deflect brass back into the action if cycled slowly.

As the 404J now sits, it is wearing Weaver steel bases-the only cheap looking thing about the rifle, but they're strong and unobtrusive. I need better light to see, but it would appear that the bases are soldered and have 8/40 Torx screws holding them securely. They don't overhang the ejection port which is good, too.

The rear sight (one fixed, one folding leaf) has never been filed in and there is a large 3/32" white foresight on what I think is a banded NECG. I plan to scope this using a standard 1.5-6X or thereabouts. Looking over the ballistic tables, I'm guessing a 2" high zero at 100yds would be about right for the scope. I can't see taking shots with the irons past 100-guessing it would make sense to file the fixed rear blade in at 50yds or so as this range (and under) is most likely where the irons will be used?

If it makes a difference, this scoped 404 will be used like a 375 and my all purpose rifle. I also have an irons-only 450/400 3" DR and plan to take either a 270 or possibly even a 6.5x54 as my light. Going with my girlfriend hence the 3 rifle battery...

Rainy and overcast today, but will try to post some pics later this morning under the Big Bore forum. If anyone else cares to give input, etc probably best to do so under this new thread before this drifts too far off Gunsmithing.

Thanks again,
Bill

I read both forums on this subject and it was lenthy for the most part..

I have been building and shooting the 404 for many many years..I have always used a Clymer reamer and never had a glitch with any ammo..

I have not use the newer Kynamco ammo but I know the Clymer reamer works with Lapua, Graff, Hornady, Norma, Horneber, and the old RWS I have on hand in all the 404s I have built..

RCBS, Redding, Hornady dies work also in the Clymer chamber, so I suspect that any ammo will work and if not I would sure shy away from a ammo manufacturer that chose to make ammo with demision other than what all the others were using.