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All, As posted in the Medium Bore Forum, I'm going to have Rifles Inc. build me a custom rifle. I need to determine my length of pull, I m measure all of the my other rifles and shotguns, LOP ranged from just over 13" to about 14 1/2". Interestingly enough, the rifles and shotguns that I like best, that "fee" good when I shoulder them, also vary... Is there a way for me to measure this myself?? I want to make sure I get this right.... Thanks in advance, Regards, Craig Nolan Best Regards, Craig Nolan | ||
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Hello Craig, I just ordered a stock from HS precision, and had them cut it to 13 1/4 inches, if I remember right. The original was at 14 (I don't remember off-hand), and seemed a little long; like I was too stretched out. The shorter one really "sits-down" into my shoulder, and is easy to "snuggle up" with. If you have a similar rifle to what you intend to build, that might be a good start as to imagining what would feel right. And, don't forget, you can always cut more, but it's hard to add it back again! friar Our liberties we prize, and our rights we will maintain. | |||
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You want the gun to feel comfortable when you pull it into the pocker of your shoulder. You want to maintain a safe distance from the knuckle of your thumb (trigger hand) and your nose. "Rule of thumb", pun intended, for me, is to maintain about an inch distance between knuckle and nose. Some folks prefer and inch to an inch and a half. If I need more distance, I can build it out with layers of clothing. My opinion is, find a gun that fits within this parameter and use that measurement. Whatever you do, don't go the "Hook and Crook" method. Hook of the finger to the crook of the elbow. That is old school. That was back before parents did drugs and kids grew normal.  _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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Standard shotgun LOP is usually 14" or slightly more. Standard rifle LOP is usually around 13 1/2". gotta find what feels good. One rifle style may feel good at 13.5", but another may feel better longer or shorter. Balance comes into play also. Another huge factor, is what weather will you be hunting in? I mean, shooting in summer in a light shirt, the gun may feel perfect. But put six layers on and sit in a tree stand in the middle of winter, and the gun will feel terrible. Lots of decisions Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum | |||
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Thank you all... Westpac, I'll try that with a few of my favorites when I get home; I thought about the "hook and crook", but I've long since heard that this doesn't work and didn't want to get flamed hikerbum, your figures jive with what I measured at home, and again I was surprised at the disparity with all of the guns that felt good. Most of hunting will be with colder or cold weather gear on; i.e. mountain states, Canada, etc... sounds like a little shorter may be the way to go... Regards, Craig Nolan Best Regards, Craig Nolan | |||
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Too many variables. Even the grip will change things (open grips feel better with a longer LOP, while closed grips can be shorter). Every custom stock that I have used was cut to 14.5" originally, then shortened as needed. You can always shorten a stock, you can't always lengthen one.  | |||
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What's that formula standard used for Height of the person using the stock ?. Average height 5'8" = 14" LOP I read this some where and can't place where it was or the rest of the increases in LOP for taller persons . I know Arm length comes to play as well as a couple of other factors . Does anyone know where that formula is posted ?. Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...  | |||
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Arm length, neck length, chest size, tits, hand size, there can't be a formula to factor all this. _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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Craig, I have 4 custom rifles with styles of "open grips". Drop me an email and drop on by...you are a whopping 2 miles north of me and you can try them out. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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There's no "standard" or "formula" for correct stock fit, and LOP is only part of good fit anyway. It either fits or it doesn't. If you've never been to a professional gunfitter or stockmaker for a fitting, and you already own a number of shotguns and rifles and are having a custom built, it's probably time. ------------------------------------------------ "Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder." | |||
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Hows about you go to a gunstore that has a serious selection of guns on the racks and start "test feeling" as many as they will have the patience to pass across the counter to you? Dress in your huntin' togs to get the right feel. When you find the right one, measure it from the bow in the trigger to the butt, and that's your answer. | |||
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I read it some where that there is a rule of thumb measurement pertaining to that subject . It's meant as a simple guideline I do believe it was posted on this forum site at one time ?!. Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ... | |||
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Westpac is right on the money; my gunsmith suggests 1.5 inches between nose and thumb, viz important for shotguns and straight overhead shots and rifles like saeeds 577 Tyr. A shorter length of pull usually makes for quicker mounting. Not terribly important for a long range rifle. more important is the drop at comb; with scope mounted, close your eyes and mount the rifle to your shoulder, aiming at an objct. In a fitted gun, when you open your eyes, the crosshair will be right on the target. If you come close, thats fine with a rifle that is not being used for running shots and instinctive shooting (eg,stopping rifle) good luck! | |||
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I wish I would live long enough to see truly custom fit rifles for sale here in the 'States. I fear amost all American custom gunmsiths confuse "dustom-made" with "custom fit". Sure, they make guns to order, using custom barrels, custom actions, hand-fitted selected wood, and numerous other optionals. But that is a "custom-made" gun, not a "custom-fit" one. A Custom-fit Rifle is one where everything, the LOP, cast, comb-height, arc to pistol grip, comb thickness, even the forend, are made to fit the body, shooting style, strength, and use of the owner. In the old days, when such guns were quite available, fitting was done by use of a try-gun and a Fitter. The try gun was adjustable in virtually every dimension, including such things as the arc from the trigger to the base of the pistol grip. The Fitter was a man (usually) who would observe the purchaser mounting the "try-gun", pulling the trigger, etc, while in positions the shooter would likely use in the field and wearing appropriate clothing for that use. "Feel" was only one reason such careful attention was paid to fit. Stock dimensions also affect felt recoil, and natural pointing of the rifle bore. For instance, a longer stock will cause the bore point of aim to be lower (and vice versa). The degree of cast-off or cast-on will vary the degree to which the gun bore naturally points right, left, or hopefully when correct, dead center for windage. Anyway, for a basic introduction to proper fit of rifles for better shooting, I recommend "A.G.'s Book of the Rifle"; A.G. Banks; London, England; Hazel, Watson & Viney, Ltd.; 1940. Old AG knew his stuff. He was an iron-ring man (Engineer)who also won the Queen's Cup at Bisley in full bore, and represented England on many international teams in small bore. He was the first man to win the Queen Alexandria Cup (equivalent of the Queen's Cup, but in small bore), which match was fired on the range at Southlands Rifle Club, later known as Wimbledon Park. That win was in 1907, 101 years ago. He was still accumulating experience and knowledge for this book in 1938 when, just before the Second Great Kerfluffle, he won the Ramsey Challenge Trophy at Bisley (the grand prize in high-power, telescopically-sighted, rifle shooting). Anyway, any person can doubtless learn from him, regardless of their own experiences. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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All, thank you again for your responses, good information. I measured the LOP on 10 of my favorite rifles/shotguns over the weekend; I was surprised that the LOP went from 13 3/8" on my M700 .35 Whelen to 14 1/2" on my Beretta AL391. Even my "favorite" shooters varied from 13 1/2" to 14 1/4".... Mike, PM sent... thanks again, Regards, Craig Nolan Best Regards, Craig Nolan | |||
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I'm going through this exact debacle with my wife, hoping she doesn't get clued in on the fact that I'm going to be building her a rifle. She's coming up between 12.25-13.00........ This is after several different stock variations and styles. I've also used the hook and crook method, coupled with grip to nose measurement and cross-checking to the same gun and my LOP and fit.....long process to keep under wraps with the wifey. Williams Machine Works | |||
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Come on Matt, be creative. Invite a friend over and have him pretend you are building a rifle for his wife. Plan this in her presence of course. Duh! Have him ask your wife if she would mind helping them determine the correct fit because his wife is of similar size. Fooling this particular species doesn't require rocket science. They are easily duped if one is on his game. _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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