The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing 300WM & .308 in one rifle -Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Since the 300WM and .308Win's barrel specifications are exactly the same (twist rate perhaps different, but a common twist rate for both is quite possible, say 1:9"), is it at all possible to have one rifle that can fire both these cartridges?
Can the professional gunsmiths on the forum perhaps reply to the above question with the necessary reasons and explanations to support their answers. | ||
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No, you can't fire these two rounds from one rifle. First of all, they have different rim diameters; the .308 has a rim of 0.473 inch and the .300 has a rim of 0.532. Their dimensions are way too different. You couldn't fit a .300 Winchester Magnum into a .308 chamber. The .308 case doesn't even come up to the start of the shoulder of the .300. Plus, the .300 is belted, the .308 isn't. If you want both of these calibers you are going to have to get two seperate rifles. | |||
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You can easily down-load the 300WinMag to the levels of the 300WSM, 300SAUM, 30-06, 30-40 Krag, 308Win, 300Sav and even below the 30 M1 Carbine with the proper Powder. All you need to do is become a Reloader and get a few Manuals. | |||
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Or......, Have a long action built in 300 WM, and then have the gunsmith fit a barrel and bolt in 308. Buy a barrel vise and an action wrench and you are in business. By this time you have probably spent more than it would have cost to have 2 searate rifles. | |||
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KennethI: I see your point below based on these different sizes:
However, if one starts off with a 300WM chamber and bolt sizes, wouldn't it be possible to have a separate bolt to fit the same 300WM chamber, but different other sizes like length, etc. to be capable to handle the smaller .308 cartridge up to the barrel entrance so to say? If possible at all, one would end up with a rifle where you have to different bolts - one for .308 and one for .300 cases - and say to different magazine boxes as well. Is this possible? | |||
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springtrap, the only way that I know of doing this is to go to H-S Precision and get a takedown two barrel set 308-300mag. I had one in 257 wthby-30-378 wthby. The system works great. | |||
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You could have a custom take down rifle built that has two bolts and two barrels. But my question is why? Or is it .308 Norma and .300 Win. mag. Timan | |||
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The simple answer is no. Starting with a 300Wmag bolt there is not a longer bolt that would make up the difference. Bolts stop at the same point in the front of the action. The chamber is then cut in front of the bolt. The bolt face is not made longer to make up the difference. A 308 case would be too short to feed correctly from a 300Wmag magazine. And lastly you need to really look at the dimensions of the two cases. It is not just the head of the 300Wmag the entire case is a larger diameter. If you want one rifle to shoot both the cheapest way is buy and Encore and two barrels. Even a swap barrel with two bolt set up would not eliminate the short case in the long magazine issue. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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SpringTrap, I can build you a bolt action rifle that will handle both the 300 Win Mag and the .308 Win. You will need the following items. 1 ea. Action/Stock (Remington 700 configuration). 1 ea. Barrel in 300 Win Mag 1 ea. Barrel in .308 Win 1 ea. Magnum bolt 1 ea. Standard bolt 1 ea. Detachable magazine for magnum cartridge (HS Precision) 1 ea. Detachable magazine standard '06 length cartridge (HS Precision) 1 ea. Barrel vise 1 ea. Action wrench Labor will be about twice what you would normally expect to pay for 1 rifle. If you're still interested, send me your action and about $4,000 to start. Balance on completion. Or, Do like ramrod340 suggested and get yourself a T/C Encore... | |||
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Timan wrote:
The Firearms Act in South Africa, unless you are registered as a dedicated hunter, only allows each occasional hunter to have only 4 hunting rifles. If you have a license for a handgun then only + 3 hunting rifles. Furthermore in SA the rifle's barrel is licensed to you as an individual - no changes can be made to that barrel unless it is relicensed again which is a lengthy process and you are running the risk that the license may not be approved again. Against that background I was thinking of ways to have one already licensed barrel (.308) doing the work of two barrels and how to get out of that same barrel (300WM same specs as .308 barrel) a magnum type of performance without having to go through any relicensing process and all the risks attached to it as well as staying within the requirements of the act as far as the number of allowed hunting rifles go. After all the input from you guys here to say it is just impossible to do so, it sounds as if Hot Core's download advice (300WM downloaded to .308 standards) is perhaps the route to follow. Point is though, then I must first apply for a 300WM license which I won't get unless I sell one of my existing licensed hunting rifles - not acceptable. Xerox once had a saying that went: "The impossible we do at once, miracles take us a little longer!" Still need a solution, please! | |||
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What guns do you have now? | |||
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malm: FN Sauer .270 Sako 7mm Rem Mag Brno .308W + 1 9mm Beretta pistol. Full house as per SA Firearms Act for a non-dedicated hunter. | |||
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And I thought we had silly laws in the USA????  | |||
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If I did much hunting and were restricted to 4 guns, here's how I would approach it. I would have one gun in a .375 or bigger, to handle the big stuff, a small caliber like the 22-250 for the small stuff, and perhaps something to cover the middle ground like a 30-06. And then of course I would have a good reliable handgun. Won't they let you have a shotgun? | |||
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Unfortunately in SA and elsewhere it is the barrel, and not the receiver that is counted. That is why you will see the serial number on both the barrel and action on many European guns. A Blaser would not help in this situation. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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Sell two of your rifles and use the money to buy a plane ticket to the USA!  | |||
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The real way to go is to run for elected office and get those laws changed!! | |||
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malm: I bought the .270 and the .308. Already sold my .22LR and 12ga shotgun (not allowed to have a handgun as well as a shotgun - either the one or the other, not both!) That was a nice combination for plains game hunting as well as bird hunting. I then inherited my late father's 7mm Rem Mag. Still a good spread of guns for meat hunting on plains game. However, something with a little more "umph" like a 300WM would be nice! Gasman: Blaser out like tiggertate pointed out correctly. Rick0311 wrote:
Why? To move to a place with more
22wrf wrote:
Not a snowball's hope in hell with millions of the same type as our present governing authorities out there in dark Africa! I will have to contact some or other brilliant gunbuilder/gunsmith in South Africa to try and invent something to solve this new problem South African hunters have since the new Firearms Act was forced down on us. Hopefully someone will come up with something totally new! | |||
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Hey, SA had (has?) some of the best and most inventive gun designers around. I would bet that you won’t have any trouble finding someone who can build you just what you’re looking for. All those trade sanctions over the years created some really talented and creative people. | |||
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Just to let you all know - My idea to have .308 Win and 300 Win Mag cartridges being fired out of one rifle (although barrel specs are the same) is not possible. So, no gain. However, SA gunmakers/gunsmiths can easily convert the Brno ZKK600 .308 action to 300 Win Mag - and there you go, your .308 became a 300 Win Mag at very little cost and no relicensing troubles! Some you win and some you lose! Thanks for your input. | |||
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There you go!  | |||
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Springtrap, I don't see why a good smitty couldn't make an insert to use in a 300WM chamber with a 308 chamber insert like they use in shotguns to convert 12 gauge to 20 or even 28, 410 guage. A good smitty could design it to fit right and lock into place. Then supply a .473 bolt for the 308 Win. Just a thought, it could possably work, no? Olcrip, Nuclear Grade UBC Ret. NRA Life Member, December 2009 Politicians should wear Nascar Driver's jump suites so we can tell who their corporate sponsers are! | |||
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No real reason for having both a .270 and a 7 Mag. Dump the 7 Mag and get a 300 Mag. Here's how I'd approach the larger problem: Pick one from Group 1: 223 Rem 22-250 243 6.5X55 Pick one from Group 2: 7X57 270 Win 308 30-06 7 Mag 300 Mag Pick one from Group 3: 338 Win Mag 9.3X62 375 H&H 416 Rem or Rigby Pick one from Group 4: 9mm Beretta 45 1911 12 ga O/U 12 ga pump Personally, I'd have to go with a 6.5X55, 300 Win Mag, 416 Rem and 12 gauge O/U. What a compromise battery. You gotta do what you gotta do, but I'd be crying in my beer if it came down to this. ______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | |||
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Springtrap, There is a company here that makes a polyplastic chamber insert what would enable you to do what you are trying to do. Essentially, you insert this device into your 300WM and make it into a 30-06 and get one for .308 and make it into a 308. You can use a stuck case extractor to remove the device. The 22LR insert for a .223 turns your .223 or 22-250 back into a .22 rimfire. I suspect that these work very well in double style rifles. What might really interest you is that they make these devices for shotguns, and you can shoot 16 or 20ga shells in a 12 bore. They also make rifled bore inserts for shotguns so that you can shoot rifle cartridges in your shotgun. I think if I were faced with the regulations RSA has that I'd get a .223 or .222 with a barrel insert for 22LR; a 300WM with inserts for 30-06 and 308; and 12ga with rifled inserts for 9.3x74, and shell inserts for 16 and 20 bore. Finally, I'd get a 1911 style pistol with a .45ACP and 9mmLuger barrels and appropriate magazines. Of course, you will have the issue of buying ammo, but a resourceful person should be able to work around that. Kudude | |||
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Kudude you don't happen to know what the contact information is for the company that makes those inserts do you? Tom | |||
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Tdobesh, Try this www.mcace.com as well as Kreighoff. Of course with kreighoff you have to use one of their guns! Kudude PS: I did not find the one I was thinking about, but will continue to look. kudude | |||
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The shotgun insert that I was thinking about is called little skeeter, google that. Also there are inserts made by Briley, but they are much more expensive. The MCA product looks very interesting, particularly for use with the rifled inserts in a shotgun. This could answer Springtrap's delimma of a 22LR or a shotgun. I would imagine that you can milk enough accuracy out of one of these to pot a 22LR target at 25-50 yds. kudude | |||
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Springtraps dilema is that he can own more guns but not barrels for them. he is only allowed 3 barrels along with his handgun. 4 barrels total. so I beleive that he must stay with chamber inserts and not rifled sleeves. They could be construed as extra barrels. Correct me if I'm wrong. Olcrip, Nuclear Grade UBC Ret. NRA Life Member, December 2009 Politicians should wear Nascar Driver's jump suites so we can tell who their corporate sponsers are! | |||
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This is not an ideal solution, but it is possible to use a straight bull barrel, thread and shoulder it at both ends, and put a different chamber at each end. One end screws into the receiver, the other gets a thread protector. Use a wrench and barrel vise to swap barrel ends. Swap bolts to get the magnum bolt face. This makes for a very unusual crown, and a heavy barrel (though it could be lighter if fluted or profiled in the middle), but it has supposedly been done before (probably more out of curiosity than for legal reasons). | |||
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100% correct olcrip when you say:
One thing though, not really more guns, but since the barrels are licenced you may use inserts to change the chamber. It will still leave you with 3 rifles at any point in time - although you'll be able to fire the same calibre bullet out of a magnum or non-magnum case. One's options are very limited with the SA Firearms act as it stands at present. What most guys on this thread don't understand is that you're stuck with what you have and can only chop and change that to a very limited extent. I for instance bough a 270 and a 308W - quite a nice spread of calibres for PG. Then unexpectedly inherited my late father's 7mm RM - licence was granted before this new act came into force - now I'm stuck with it, unless I'm prepared to take all the trouble of relisencing and the risk to be turned down, which happens ever so frequently under this new act. The good news is that the authorities are now listening to the people in the gun world and may come up with certain changes to this act to make it a bit more acceptable. Meanwhile the only thing I can do is to change my .308W to a 300WM (same barrel specs) and that can be done as I've reported back. | |||
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