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Rechamber a Rem 700 in 308 win to 300 WSM, open bolt face, cut and re-crown bbl, adjust feeding. Just curious what I am looking at. Thanks, Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | ||
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Mike, Just like your signature essay says, you'll get a different question answered than you ask. The cost is enough that you're much better off selling the rifle, and replacing it with one of the caliber you want. And, the rifle will be worth more on resale. I'd hazard a guess that you'll have $75 to $100 in rechamber. $100 to $150 to open bolt face and extractor work. $35 to $60 to cut/crown. $25 to $100 to make feed. Maybe as low as 200 for the package deal. That would be on the low end. A quick look at gunbroker shows 308 model 700's selling for about $25 to $50 more than a 300 wsm configured similarly. The only way this would remotely make sense is if you have some very special rifle to you that you want in a different caliber. dave | |||
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It is a special rifle...already had the action trued and trigger work done and bbl fluted...so $250 is is worth it to me. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Until it won't feed. Then it really will be special. Leave it alone. | |||
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Really Chuck? Given the 300 WSM is a factory chambering for the Remington 700, I would expect a competent gunsmith can get it to feed. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Mike you could try a Wyatts magazine box in your current 308 to feed the WSMs and see how that works. If it works cut the new bolt face and open the chamber. | |||
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Making a WSM cartidge feed from a .308 action can be done, but it takes time and materials. You'll need a mag box, either from Wyatts or an original. Both available from the usual sources. You'll need a 700 WSM follower, too. It'll take some time with a file to open the rails so the cartridges will pass, and the feed ramp will need to be opened so the cartridges will 'flow' to the chamber with their bullet noses headed the right way. A WSM cartridge won't go through the rails of a .308 action without being 'opened up'. "Open" them too much, and the mag won't hold cartridges, too little and it won't feed properly, if at all. Some suggest a mill. I guess if it's in the program list, but I prefer to use a file and a die grinder w/carbide burrs, and some wet & dry paper on a dowel to smooth it all up. By hand it takes time. Be prepared to pay for that time. Feeding issues are among the top 2 problems I have customers bring their rifles to me to fix, and lately,,,,, there's been a 'slug' of 'um! Either it won't shoot or it won't feed,,,,, sometimes both. WSM in a .308 action isn't a "drop-in" with just a few parts. Wyatts does make a 'center feed' box & follower for the WSM. But, that's still not a "drop-in" and reduces mag capacity. | |||
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If that rifle is "special" then LEAVE IT ALONE!! You can't just "Open up the bolt face" on a rem because of the way the extractor is designed, you will need another bolt or bolt head replaced. Rem used to do the work and some gunsmiths had the tools and expertise to do it but usually the bolt head was just replaced...I don't know if rem still does that or not...or you could put in a AR extractor and open up the face...all of which cost MONEY. Bolts with the required bolt heads are available aftermarket at several places, mag boxes also and there are 'smiths the could do the rail/feed work...do your homework, all that information is available online, just look for it. Be smart...just buy a Rem 700 in 300 WSM and be done with it...start mucking about doing what your doing...UNLESS you stop doing the cheapo thing and just send it to a 'smith that can do the work and pay way more than the price of a new gun...and you have just stepped in it. ANYTHING CAN BE DONE BY TOSSING ENOUGH MONEY AT IT, AND ANYONE CAN TURN A "SPECIAL RIFLE" INTO A POS JUNKER BY BREAKING OUT IN DUMB...IT HAS HAPPENED INUMERABLY MANY TIMES IN THE PAST...!!! Your 12 and 13 are totally bogus in todays world because if the shit happens odds are you probably won't survive and if you do you will be stuck with whatever you have in your pockets at the time, because odds are again, you will be at work, in your car going to and from your work or the store or the movies or where ever...NOT safe??? in your home surrounded by all your cannons...your quasi argument is dated by a long time. NO DISS OR FLAME INTENDED...I've been down this same road a few times in the past but luckily I stopped before I wrecked perfectly good rifles/receivers...many times it is quicker, easier and cheaper to buy a new/used rifle than go mucking about trying to turn a silk purse into a sows ear...so to speak. Luck. | |||
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Hey guys...appreciate all the advice... Just FYI talk to 9 different gunsmiths... I got 3 opinions all evenly distributed... 3 said buy a new bolt 3 even said you have to buy a new bbl and a new bolt 3 said no problem add an AR-15 or Sako extractor done it 1/2 dozen times I will let you all guess who were "calmest and easiest talk to" Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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leave it a 308 Win or it may become an unspecial rifle | |||
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And if you do go ahead with this conversion and everything goes well, you'll have a WSM with a 22" barrel (if you don't have a barrel installed). Hardly a worthwhile item. | |||
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Silvers, You know I have a 22" bbl because you have seen and put a tape measure to my rifle?  I appreciate all your insights; however, I have made my decision. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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And the decision...is ? | |||
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Mike, I think you got exactly what you should have expected, when you asked the original question. You have learned, I hope, to call a gunsmith before soliciting any opinions from the "Experts", on this and any other forum like it. NRA Patron Life Member Benefactor Level | |||
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Magazine Box,Short Magnum, New, Blued - $18.90 http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/1219260.htm Follower, short action magnum - $35.15 http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/245970A.htm Extractor, magnum - $18.30 http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/85720C.htm Extractor rivet - $4.10 http://www.gunpartscorp.com/ad/89330.htm#85760E Chambering, bolt face opening and extractor install, feed rail tweek - $ going rate, depends on who does it. Likely $200 or so. | |||
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FYI...I have an XP-100 originally a .223 converted to an AR extractor and opened up to .473" bolt face back some 25-30 years??? when the AR conversion stuff first came out. Paid a chunk of "that time" money for it...it's still going strong and has gone through several barrel/cal changes since then and now is a 16" 7mm08. One XP went from 14" 7BR to now 26" 6mm284 (with additional stops in between also)and one is waiting for me to get off the pot and do something, both of those have the original "c-clip" extractor. I had Remington replace a bolt head from .473" to .513" and install a 300 H&H bbl, again way the he** back in those halcyon days..."nowayjosetoday" in this litigious atmosphere. I've seen/read/heard of blown out AR extractors and have had a couple of hiccups with standard Rem extractors due to brain pharts and over exuberation, so now I tend to be conservative with my AR converted XP and let it all hang out with the standard heads(UP TO SAMMI MAX ONLY...those 3 rings of steel DO WORK as advertised). I HAVE fiddled with doing WSM conversions on Rem, Ruger/mauser clones for the past couple years, running many cost analyses from every angle because I want to do a series of calibers from 338 - 50 cal using the WSM case and the cheapest, easiest, quickest and most prudent way to get started is to start with a WSM donor action...I think...maybe I'm all wet??? There are MANY cheap new and used donor actions out there and the choice depends on whether you like a push feed or a CRF action. BOTH are about the same money used, and Marlin/Savage, both having barrel nuts arrangements, are the cheapest/quickest/easiest way to go for push feeds. I've also now have and have done in the past, several switch barrel rifles, with/without a nut arrangement, on Rem's and Ruger/mauser clones. From my searching for those past several years for "cost of converting vs WSM original" the WSM original is WAY more less costly overall even if you start with your own "no cost" donor action AND you get to buy another rifle Over the years MANY people have posited similar questions, i.e., "I want to convert...da dah, da dah, da dah..."...all you have to do is do a search...MOST of them NEVER bother to do even the smallest amount of research and I NEVER heard anything back from them online whether or not they actually DID the questioned conversions. 'Smiths are selling their labors and depending on the level of "work in progress" and level of honesty, you will get a variety of answers...many will sell you ANYTHING you want without telling you any down sides, that's why I do my OWN work and research thoroughly before I start a project, besides being tight fisted with my Brass. There is pretty much NOTHING new when it comes to conversions. The only way for you to totally understand this lengthy process is to forget about ANY online forums except for the barest information, forget about 'smiths except for total cost of a final/complete conversion including ALL aspects and go online to the various pieces and parts suppliers...Brownells, Midway, specialty shops for ALL the components and required metal work and compare it with the cost of a WSM donor action plus (and/or barrel), and/or a complete new/used rifle. Check with ER Shaw, Douglas, McGowen Pac-Nor etc for threaded/chambered/contoured/crowned barrels usually starting at about half the cost of a new Savage/Marlin/Rem/RUGER, and Buds Gun shop, http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php, for the cheapest prices on various weaponry. Basically, I just gave you a long winded cost analysis with the bottom line in the above two paragraphs and the reason I won't try to convert a "standard" action to WSM even though I have all the tools to do the work myself and have converted a few "strange" conversions...one M77 tang Ruger to feed a Rigby based 50 cal wildcat, a SMLE to shoot both 45-70 and 458 American, a Marlin 336 "switch barrel" 356 W 444 and 458Americasn/450 Marlin and a whole passel of wildcat/standard cartridge calibers over the past 50 odd years...in this case and your case it's more economical in the long run to just buy a new/used WSM rifle in the caliber I/you want and just swap in a $175-250 barrel, rent a $50 reamer and/or have a $135 reamer ground in the caliber I want. There is a used $450 Savage 11 I can probably get for $400 in my local favorite gun shop in 7mm WSM I keep eye balling, hunting season is over so I might wait a little longer plus I haven't checked all the gun shops in the surrounding 200 mile radius. While most conversions are relatively easy and straight forward metal working, there's a hellofalotmore than just a bolt face adjustment/barrel swap/feed rail fitting going on and most non-'smiths have little clue the amount of knowledge required to understand the nuances. Just like the difference between a welder and a "gobitoner"...lots of people can gobiton... not many can really weld. Luck | |||
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