Going to order a 700 clone action, now that I sold the 700s I was going to use. Broke even, and I intend to put a 1913 rail on them.

What do you think is the best among Badger, Nesika, Pierce, Surgeon, Bighorn, Defiance, Stiller.

Surgeon, Defiance, Stiller and a couple others make an integral rail. That is what I plan on doing.

Purchase a BORDEN & don't look back for several reasons.

Go ahead and give us the reasons as this is an area about which I know nothing and would like to learn.

I am with dpcd

Maybe this will help.

http://precisionrifleblog.com/...olt-actions-what-the

Those are all great actions but don' overlook BAT, they do an integral rail also and Lester Bruno usually has 'em in stock.

I have no idea why the Borden would be better than the others listed they all make great stuff.


.

I recently acquired one of Borden's Stainless 308 Length actions to use to build a 260 Rem for my daughter. I'm also going to use one of my new 700 Shrike stocks to tie it all together.

I then found out he was making a run of Chrome-Moly actions shortly and Jim allowed me to trade in the SS action for a C/M version.

I am very impressed with the fit and finish of this action and spent quite some time examining it looking at every little detail and nuance. It is excellent example of attention to detail and execution. I would not hesitate to order another one.

That link did not help as they didn't even mention Borden; it is touted as the best and I would like to know why.

You know, 'the best' in my view is relative. I suspect each of use would prefer this or that and not care so much for something else.
IE, I would prefer not to have the integral rail, as it does not extend far enough forward for the way I set up a scope.
Additionally, I am not a fan of the Sako extractor.
There are other examples as we..

How about this? (speaking for the OP here; hope it is ok)
Which action will make the most accurate rifle?

GAP is making 700 clone actions with a three lug bolt (60 degree bolt lift). It should be at the SHOT show in Las Vegas.

Barnard already has a similar three lug, 700 footprint action in production.

Tis fine!

But not where I was 100% going. I want a reliable action, that is tough, can take some dusty sandy areas (Namibia & Wyoming), I'd even sacrifice a little accuracy to have a more reliable action.

I have had 700s gummed up while hunting off of a four wheeler for elk home in Wyoming. I was thinking the same thing could happen in Namibia.

Last safari I used a mauser.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
How about this? (speaking for the OP here; hope it is ok)
Which action will make the most accurate rifle?

Ah, ok, I am hearing you want a hunter, pure and simple, not a bench rest action made to look like a hunting rifle. In that case, yes, use a Mauser or a M70. I am sure all the 700 clones use tighter bolts than the factory Rem.

quote:

In that case, yes, use a Mauser or a M70

Either one would work. You're splitting hairs when you worry about the accuracy of the action on a hunting rifle. (my opinion)

Ha, your opinion is dead spot on.

BigWonderfulWy-
You've changed your mind already from your original post.

With a couple exceptions-All but a couple 700 clones are tight fit bolt bodied,timed into battery,overpriced......JUNK!

For a true control round feed an '03 action should be your choice.
All other control round feed actions are bastardized renditions.

quote:

Originally posted by DArcy_Echols_Co:

I am very impressed with the fit and finish of this action and spent quite some time examining it looking at every little detail and nuance. It is excellent example of attention to detail and execution. I would not hesitate to order another

I have only ever heard plenty of good words about Jim Borden actions.

iF Bordens are anywhere up with Echols & Co. shop metal standards, a person is one winner for a very reasonable price.

Q./ - Mr.Echols, do you see yourself needing to tweak the B.action in anyway, or are they 100% good to go as is?

ALSO, have you inspected and formed an opinion on the McMillan G30 actions?...
The ones I handled at a show look impressively well done all over, but maybe I missed something.

I have a client that has a G30 and really likes the rifle. It is very accurate and he has used it on a number of backpack hunts. He also owns a couple Legends, a Blazer and a small collection of Classics made by Biesen and Kennedy, Burgess, Waldren , etc. I say this as his taste in rifles are broad and he is quite anal when it comes to accuracy and function so the G30 he has must meet those requirements.

I have been told that there are many very well made 700 Type actions on the market at this time. Most of these are made well enough so that Blue-printing is not required from what I'm told by those smiths that use them on a weekly basis. I can't comment on this aspect as I have never used a Defiance, Stiller, Bat or any other current production clone to date. I have known Jim Borden for many years and wanted to use one of his actions to build a light sporter for my daughter. I have no doubt that with a good barrel installed on this action and bedded properly that the final package will fill any need she may have as long as she can do her part. Unlike her father she doesn't have the faintest clue as to the actions metallurgy, how or why the programs were written to do the machine operations or if the helical cam angles where burned in with a sinker on cut conventionally.

This rifle will be used in the sand and mud rain or shine that I can assure you. If it gets dinged up, needs cleaning or requires a new barrel in 3 years she knows a gunsmith. I don't have any reservations as to my choice of action for this rifle. If I did I wouldn't have bought this one. It could have been a Stiller or Defiance but I chose the Borden.

When the Borden arrived I sat down and really it looked over. I have done that a few other times since its arrival, I like what I see. I would have installed the Jewel trigger and tested the fire control aspects of the two together but the Jewel has been on back order for some time. Comparing the Borden to an OEM 700 is not realistic as the 700 was made to sell as complete rifle at much, much lower price point. Having said that the 700 is an excellent action. I have in fact built two Classic's using an OEM 700 and a couple dozen, glass stocked, standard sporters over the years. All these 700s were blueprinted and tricked out to some degree. All shot great upon completion and are still in service.

Are these newer 700 clones better than the OEM 700 ? Bamboo, Glass or Boron each will toss a fly and land fish.

Are these newer actions worth the added dollars? That depends on your personal budget. Would I prefer a Borden or Stiller over an OEM 700? Today, Yes I believe so for my purposes. I'd like to think that tighter tolerances, fit, finish, attention to detail and quality control used in the fabrication of 40 actions at a time is going to be much more consistent than a facility making 4000 at a time.

At this point in my career I can use any action I want for a project. Having the option to get a Borden in C/M may lead to me one day sinking it into a piece of slab sawed french and hanging fuzzy dice off the front swivel stud.

Like never before the industry is offering some of the finest components to the buying public and to those placed in charge of assembling them. Enjoy while you can.

Darcy,

Not to take away from my original subject but, why are you building a 260 when the 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5x47 are a better mouse trap?

Do you just have a 260 reamer on hand?

The 260 cartridge is just too damn long to work with the bigger VLD type hunting bullets. It was almost like Remington thought that the cartridge was going to be 100% fired with 120 grain bullets.

Just the thoughts of a competitive F-Class shooter, varminter and military armorer. Not asking for a wizards duel with the meisterbuchsenmacher of Utah.

Bamboo, Glass or Boron they will all toss a fly amd land a fish

Dans; you do realize that we stole the 1903 Springfield idea from Mauser and every change we made to it, only made it worse. And we got caught and had to pay Mauser for using his patents? BTW, the 03 was copied from the 93 Mauser, not the 98. (which is what we should have copied)

I have used Nesika (Before Glen H departed) Stiller, Time Precision, Surgeon, and Defiance Actions. All build a great rifle. I recently had a chance to look at a Borden action and it had a very nice look and feel , very similar to Defiance or the Nesika built by Glen. I have not had to do any work on the actions and even changed a bolt to get a different style handle on one of the first Nesika actions and it headspaced perfectly with no work.

Over the past several years I have built on Stiller, Surgeon, GAP, Trued a lot of 700's. I used more Stiller actions than any other. Of my personal rifles the only ones I still have are the ones on the Stiller actions. The GAP, to me is just a little too tight for a field rifle. This could be taken care of with any number of treatments to the bolt to gain some clearance to give any debris a place to go. The GAP is also substantially heavier than the competitors.

Used the one Surgeon. Great action, but the cost difference and availability at times just didn't make the cut.

Truing a factory action you will have as much cost total into the project as one of the custom actions with no gain if you go to sell it in the future. This is really only a practical option if you already have the action in your possession.

Stiller has just been a great company to deal with, excellent service, quality actions, good pricing. My benchrest rifle, and my hunting rifles are all built on Stiller actions. I don't recall any rifle I built on one of their actions shooting any worse than .3's (then again the same can be said for the other companies as well. Most of these builds were on the TAC 30 or TAC 300 actions. I have one of the Stiller Spectre actions with the integral rail sitting in the safe that I've been trying to decide if I will build another 6.5x47.

Big Wondelful Wyoming,
you might want to focus on whether or not you can take your firearms over to Europe first!!!
otherwise you are wasting our and your time answering your questions.

I've built rifles on most of the clones and will verify that it is not cost effective to"blueprint" a factory receiver. Most "blueprints" aren't really. My one Nesika was an early model from around the later 90s. Had is back to Nesika many times and they were easy to work with, just never fixed the problem. Jim Borden normally sells his receivers with the trigger to insure your timing is spot on. He makes a real quality product. I have had several Stillers and they were great. For a CM clone I believe John Pierce makes the best.
Now most of these folks make a tighter fitting bolt to body fit on their comp. receivers. The other clones are good, I'm like everybody else, the reason I choose what I like is a Chevy, Ford, Dodge issue. I prefer GMC.
The 260 is a great cartridge. I do have a couple 6.5X47 Lapua, but they both kill what I shoot at. If you don't reload the 260 is readily available.

quote:

Originally posted by Norseman:
Big Wondelful Wyoming,
you might want to focus on whether or not you can take your firearms over to Europe first!!!
otherwise you are wasting our and your time answering your questions.

Your the same asshole that commented negatively on me toward my step-daughter's attempted suicide.

I don't see where you have offered your 2 cents here. I don't have to ask your permission to ask a question to anyone on this forum or any other.

I'll buy what I want and do what I want. If the stuff doesn't make it to Europe it doesn't make it. That is my problem to worry about.

The only waste of time is you.

This is my Pierce CM clone by James Anderson.



It is a very slick. If I have any complaint with clone receivers, it would be the butt ugly bolt handles. Dan40X in Fairbanks, Ak threw the original bolt handle away as it was ugly and SS. John Pierce had just started making CM bolt handles for his tactical rifles. I did not want a bolt handle that had one of those dog nutz knobs on it. Dan took the CM handle and welded a more pleasing bolt knob set up on it.

Butch,

I can certainly appreciate that rifle. The stock on your rifle reminds me of this little rifle I saw in Britain about 12 years ago.

The company that made them went defunct but they had some design elements from your stock. Very lithe, very sexy.

Personally I am a tactical rifle nerd.

Here are a couple I have been involved with the builds on. They were personal rifles of mine before I emmigrated back from Australia. Both 700s started out as BDLs, we trued them, installed Krieger barrels, HS Precision stocks, and applied the cerakote liberally.

To me a rifle is a using rifle. At one time I owned a lot of Blaser stuff. I am down to a K95 and it's 3 barrels. I'll probably never own another high dollar wood gun again. I cry like a baby every time one of them gets scratched.

I'll bet it shoots very well.

The two Remingtons were great, the Tikka was better before the rebarrel. It had one of Tikka's varmint weight 30-06 barrels on it. The stock helped quite a bit over the tupperware stock, but we actually lost accuracy as the original 30-06 barrel was really good. Shot a lot of F-Class with that rifle, I won a couple matches but all in all I don't have the wind figured out to be an expert at.

Big Wonderful Wyoming,
I never said anything negatively about your stepdaughter. Perhaps
you are confusing me with someone else?
Are you able to take your firearms to Europe after all?

Norseman,

My apologies if that was the case.

I am able to get them imported if we go to Germany, the UK or Spain. Anywhere else is an unknown.

For what it is worth, I have had a Stiller predator 6.5x47 and used a Borden timberline .280AI, Borden rimrock single shot 6PPC, BAT single shot 7mm-08AI and BAT repeater 6XC. I prefer the two Borden actions over the Stiller. The BATs are also very nice but I have chosen a Borden rimrock SSR for my next build (another 6.5x47 deer rifle) which will hopefully be finished in the next couple of months.

I have one of these and am pleased with it:



http://www.battacticalactions.com/4915.html

I like the idea of the integrated rail on a repeater because so much of the action is cut away. When I first built this I slapped it into a boyds with no bedding and went to a match. The zero was good all weekend and didn't change when it was later bedded properly. Just my $0.02

quote:

With a couple exceptions-All but a couple 700 clones are tight fit bolt bodied,timed into battery,overpriced......JUNK!

Which ones are "junk"?


.

quote:

Originally posted by jpl:
I have one of these and am pleased with it:



http://www.battacticalactions.com/4915.html

I like the idea of the integrated rail on a repeater because so much of the action is cut away. When I first built this I slapped it into a boyds with no bedding and went to a match. The zero was good all weekend and didn't change when it was later bedded properly. Just my $0.02

But not what the OP was looking for.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
... not what the OP was looking for.

I thought he was looking for opinions on R700 clones with integral rails than can handle some sand...

The Bat would be perfect!

quote:

Originally posted by jpl:

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
... not what the OP was looking for.

I thought he was looking for opinions on R700 clones with integral rails than can handle some sand...

quote:

But not where I was 100% going. I want a reliable action, that is tough, can take some dusty sandy areas (Namibia & Wyoming), I'd even sacrifice a little accuracy to have a more reliable action.

I have had 700s gummed up while hunting off of a four wheeler for elk home in Wyoming. I was thinking the same thing could happen in Namibia.

Last safari I used a mauser.

Because he said this. That BAT is one tight son of a gun. On one of my builds I had one CeraKoted and had to polish it off the bolt, the minute layer of CeraKote would not allow the bolt to be installed.

I wouldn't want to have an action that tight for general hunting.


.

Was that one of the "tactical" ones? Supposedly they have some changes compared to their regular benchrest line, but I've never seen another BAT up close to compare. Mine's been through a lot of dirt and blowing sand with no problems. Lots of shooting prone next to other shooters using brakes, windy conditions, etc. It's not painted though, just the nitride finish it came with and I run it pretty dry so it doesn't collect extra sand.