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Here’s the issue – getting more camming action and sear clearance on a M70 style safety for a BRNO ZG47. Rifle currently fitted with a Jim Wisner 2 position safety and Timney. The Wisner uses the original ZG cocking piece suitably machined. The issue is obtaining enough camming back on the cocking piece to fully clear the sear. Engaging the safety has the appearance of pulling back the cocking piece to clear but the level of play between the cocking piece and firing pin means quite a lot of the pulling back action ends up as the cocking piece tilting. The consequence of this is that 1 time out of 5 the action will fire when the safety is dis engaged if the trigger has been pulled while on safe. It is not possible to obtain more clearance by machining the nose of the cocking piece that bears on the sear. Any more and the safety will not engage. Much as I love my timney it’s not quite on the level of the BixNAndy and I’d really like to fix this. My options seem to be Tighter tolerance firing pin and cocking piece that can be machined to fit the Wisner (which I really like – I have 3 of them on ZGs) An M70 style safety that ‘pulls back’ more? Advice welcome | ||
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Suggest you ask Jim for advice | |||
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Good plan - anyone have an e mail or..... | |||
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If my 60+ year old memory serves me correctly, the directions in his kit say, if necessary remove material from front of cocking piece sear surface to gain clearance.  This is what I have done in the past. | |||
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http://www.wisnersinc.com/ | |||
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I agree, if the firing pin falls when you push the safety forward you need to remove material from the front of the sear on the cocking piece. What is happening is the cocking piece is not letting the trigger sear pop up in front of the cocking piece to re=set the trigger and hold the sear back. Jim Kobe 10841 Oxborough Ave So Bloomington MN 55437 952.884.6031 Professional member American Custom Gunmakers Guild | |||
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Absolutely but its not possible to remove enough to clear without going beyond the point where the safety ca not engage because the 'wing' or lever has no cut out to engage on. This is because the cockingpiece is tilting on the firing pin | |||
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If you get 4 of 5 good to go you only need .010 or so removed from cocking piece sear face  | |||
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And there is the problem, too much play between the firing pin and the cocking piece, and most likely the sleeve. In the past almost 40 years I have been making and installing this type of safety. I have encountered two Mausers that had so much play between the cocking piece and firing pin that this is the same thing that happened. I simply could not get things to work properly. I had to dig thru and find another cocking piece that fit better for one, and replace both parts on the other. What is happening, is simply tolerance stack up. The loose fit of the cocking piece and firing pin is allowing the two to tlit, think of a seesaw. Then if the tolerance of the OD of the cocking piece is much smaller than the ID of the sleeve that simply allows the cocking piece to keep tilting. Once the safety lever pushes the top of the cocking piece rearward, it tilts causing the sear face to move forward toward the trigger sear face. This is a rare thing, but you will be better off to look for either a better fitting cocking piece or firing pin to the ZG cocking piece. and then do your refitting to the safety. About a year ago I had to go thru all my spare Mauser firing pins and cocking pieces to sort and match them up for down the road. At least I had a dozen firing pins to pick from and about 18 cocking pieces. In the end I was able to match most of them up well to get rid of the real loose ones, and the OMG tight ones. Be advised you can not swap out the Pre WW1 firing pins and the post WW1 firing pin with the other type of cocking pieces. The Pre WW1 units have a corner raduis in the bottom of the grooves, while the Post WW1 units have the square grooves. JW | |||
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The ZG used a unique FP or at least a modified FP to work with its safety shroud. If the original is being used along with the original cocking piece as stated, I wonder if the slop is coming from the CP tunnel and or FP tunnel instead? If you start mixing cocking pieces and firing fins, you run into the problem Jim described.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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Jim - many thanks - I shall mix and match my 3 zg fps and cps. I may come knocking on your door for a matched pair! Just for the record in case its not clear - I really like your safety which has given 12years of fault free functioning. | |||
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Jim's Stack up explanation can also be seen in quite a few current production Mod-70's. Not only does it play hell with safety engagement but makes getting a consistent trigger pull a pipe dream as the cocking piece pre-loads the sear at a different position on the sear pad every time the rifle is cocked, the safety engaged then disengaged when the thread fit on the sleeve and the bolt body are that sloppy. Ever wonder why the newer production shrouds now have 2 pins to hold the safety wing in place. That solved one problem but the sloppy thread fit between the shroud and the bolt can cause problems that really can't be resolved adequately. | |||
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Like Jim, Tom Burgess, Jasper Rabourn and I'm sure a couple other metal-smiths that have offered sleeves have made them in different thread sizes to match the different bolt manufacture spec's, 1909 verse VZ-24 or 1940 verse 1961 Model 70's when required. I still have and have used quite few sleeves made for a particular bolt. Not only sleeves but wing safeties made oversized to fit grossly oversized cavities in the sleeves as they came from the manufacture, once again Winchester being a prime example. Then we get into cocking pieces, get one of those that is grossly undersized and try and time a proper wing safety conversion to it. I'd rather be beat on the backside with a stringer of dead catfish. The problem is only a tiny handful of craftsmen are still offering such parts today and its not difficult to see why as keeping an inventory of specialized sized parts has little investment return value. Everybody better include Jim on their Christmas card list this year. | |||
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I thought it was an over-ground cam cut in the top of the cocking piece. Had one on a '36 Mexican custom I had bought for a project that looked like someone ground it with a 20 grit wheel and a bit too far, resulting in negative clearance on the internal trigger sear. Since it had a good snug fit on the firing pin and no tilt inside the safety-modified 98 shroud, got out the wire-feed and built the notch up with weld and emery wheeled it then finished with a fine stone. Looked like hell, but voila, clearance achieved and smooth as buttah. Only took 5-6 assemblies to get it right. When in doubt, throw it out and start over. Sorry. Hope I didn't step on any toes. Back to the pros. I wouldn't mess with the hardened sear face of the CP. But that's just me, a total rookie.
Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can. | |||
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Click for a larger view.  Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can. | |||
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Sorted. Insufficient protrusion of the trigger into the action (it's adjustable) | |||
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I have several ZGs, have had others and mine all have 3=pos, 70 safeties, Satterlees, Dakotas and from the chap Jim sold his original tooling to.....NO issues with any of them. I also have (had) several 21/22 series and much the same with them and have original Wisners on these and HVA 4100s, as well. Same experience. I had one 2-pos on a 21h, did not like it and went to a 3-pos. which I much prefer. I found Jim's to be THE nicest ones in finish and flawless in function. | |||
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I think I have had 5 or 6 of ZG-47s and now only have two. Both in 30-06... but might be rebarreld to 7x64 and 9,3x62 Don´t know about you guys, but I think the original safety is the best one ever made! Simple, easy to manipulate, locks the bolt, looks beautiful and nicely machined. If you mix around several hunting rifles.. and you want the same type of safety I can somehow understand. I however rank the ZG-47 as the best hunting rifle ever made and use these exclusive on game! | |||
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I never updated this. The 'sorted' was premature - although it helped there was still too much slop for reliability. Jim - I've e mailed you. | |||
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Check with Jim Wisner to be sure I'm correct on this. Disassemble the unit and (as is suspected) if the firing pin fits sloppily inside the cocking piece, replace both parts with NEW ones from a commercial Mauser and have a new safety notch cut in the side. Make sure the bottom of the CP matches. Some are notched some straight. Gun Parts/Numerich usually has those in NOS if Jim doesn't. New old stock commercial ones are cheap & readily available. I keep a set from a Dumoulin 98 on hand just in case. Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing More clearance on Wisner/ZG47 safety
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