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Folks, Howard did not place an order. No delivery date was ever made or agreed upon. No transaction took place, No deposit for actions was placed. (standard practice) I did have one extra 06 he did look at and think about. The sale of it to Howard was contingent upon me making a LH twin for it. I had no idea when a LH action would be possible and still don't. I did suggest Dakota as an option for him. After some weeks passed I had an action in one hand and bills in the other. One of my regualars asked if I had an action suitable for a 280. I informed Howard someone else was intrested. In the RH action. As I said with an action in one hand and bills to pay in the other, I've no choice but to sell the action to the guy who really is ready to put funds down for it. I've asked my web guy to take the LH action available off my site. Stuart | ||
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Stuart I really don't want to get in a pissing match with you here. That was never my intention. I think the following emails from you will pretty much tell the true story here. I think it will be pretty clear that I did order an action, that you acknowledged that and that you also acknowledged missing your delivery date. from Jacqi and Stuart Satterlee <stujac@hills.net> sender-time Sent at 7:42 AM (GMT-07:00). Current time there: 2:13 AM. ✆ to Howard Homesley <howard@homesley.us> date Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 7:42 AM subject Re: Action 270 mailed-by filter3.e-filtering.net hide details 1/11/09 Howard, Thank you, it's your action. Later I came up with a 51.5 oz reading on the scale after readjusting the scale with some other known weights. It can be lighter no question about it. Tell me what you have in mind. Stuart from Jacqi Satterlee <stujac@enetis.net> sender-time Sent at 4:34 AM (GMT-06:00). Current time there: 2:50 AM. ✆ to HowardH <hunter7057@gmail.com> date Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 4:34 AM subject action mailed-by enetis.net hide details 4/3/09 Howard, I have all the parts for your RH 06 action finished. I still need to do the assembly, feed, function, some polish work, Scope rings dovetails. Earlier you indicated 270 Win. I can do your barrel work, If you choose. I thought I would have I ready at the end of March, I do not. I've had to adjust the schedule. Thanks, Stuart Satterlee from Jacqi Satterlee <stujac@enetis.net> sender-time Sent at 4:32 AM (GMT-06:00). Current time there: 2:52 AM. ✆ to HowardH <hunter7057@gmail.com> date Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 4:32 AM subject Satterlee 06 mailed-by enetis.net hide details 4/19/09 Howard, One of my repeat customers is interested in an 06 action. He wants it for a hunt in November. The action that I've reserved for you is the only one availble at this time. Do you mind staying on the reserve list and waitng for another action if I sell this action to my other customer. Please let me know as soon as possible Thanks, Stuart from Jacqi Satterlee <stujac@enetis.net> sender-time Sent at 5:08 AM (GMT-06:00). Current time there: 2:52 AM. ✆ to HowardH <hunter7057@gmail.com> date Wed, May 6, 2009 at 5:08 AM subject 06 action mailed-by enetis.net hide details 5/6/09 Howard, My client that was interested in that 06 action decided to have me use a different action in his build. I wanted to give you first crack at it if you are still interested. Best Regards, Stuart Satterlee Satterlee Arms from Howard Homesley <hunter7057@gmail.com> sender-time Sent at 8:07 AM (GMT-07:00). Current time there: 1:54 AM. ✆ to Jacqi Satterlee <stujac@enetis.net> bcc Chic Worthing <cworthing@charter.net> date Wed, May 6, 2009 at 8:07 AM subject Re: 06 action mailed-by gmail.com hide details 5/6/09 Stuart I have already purchased a right and left hand Dakota actions. I am still interested in your actions when you can deliver matching actions in left and right hand. Thank you, Howard. Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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quote: Howard, My client that was interested in that 06 action decided to have me use a different action in his build. I wanted to give you first crack at it if you are still interested. Best Regards, Stuart Satterlee Satterlee Arms from Howard Homesley <hunter7057@gmail.com> sender-time Sent at 8:07 AM (GMT-07:00). Current time there: 1:54 AM. ✆ to Jacqi Satterlee <stujac@enetis.net> bcc Chic Worthing <cworthing@charter.net> date Wed, May 6, 2009 at 8:07 AM subject Re: 06 action mailed-by gmail.com hide details 5/6/09 Stuart I have already purchased a right and left hand Dakota actions. I am still interested in your actions when you can deliver matching actions in left and right hand. Thank you, Howard. te: Howard, point taken, and I don't want a pissing match either. I don't place this here to me rude or smart. There's a hundred other smiths out there that would have had to do, and would have done the same thing. I just want you to observe from a gentlemans position, my point of view. you don't have to agree with it just consider it for 2 minutes. Once you bought the Dakotas, there is no good reason for me not to sell the action to a more intrested buyer. Because you had no financial intrest in it. No deposit down. It was my action. from over run extra parts in the 06 line. Stuart | |||
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Stuart I really wanted to use your actions. Still do on other projects. For the record I only purchased the Dakotas AFTER you told me you wanted the right hand action I had already ordered, for another "better" customer. Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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Gentleman Is this really the place to hash this out??? If one of you posted here in a rant and this is part two SHAME on you both. This is no place to discuss matters of business between two parties in front of god an everybody www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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Simple......just don't read the thread if you don't like it.  Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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It's not that I don't like it. I just don't think you should be airing out a business deal on a public forum. But if you don't care who sees your dirty laundry so be it. www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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Fair enough. Not any dirty laundry on my part. Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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Kerry, you may not think this is the proper place but it happens. Stuart posted this in response to another thread and Howard posted his side of it. Stuart basically said there was no deal and no deposit. If you read above he obviously accepted it without one and said the following in an email.
He also said he had no delivery date promised. And in the email he said "I thought I would have I ready at the end of March, I do not. I've had to adjust the schedule." So again, obviously he did. He asked Howard if he would mind staying on the waiting list and allowing him to sell it to his customer. Stuart is a remarkable craftsman but has had other dealings here of a lot worse results posted on this web site. This is nothing new and what Howard posted was a result of the misinformation that started the thread. Now if you do not want to have your feather ruffled, don't read it. | |||
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Like I said I don't have my patties in a bunch I just feel it's not very professional to air these thing in public. And it's not up to me to decide who is right or wrong. Theses two have a dispute. Why tell the world about it?? www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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Satterlee and I don't have a dispute and there were no hard feelings on my part. I simply told the story of my matched rifles and Satterlee was part of it. He started this thread for what purpose I don't know and I simply set the record straight. Again no hard feeling. I wish it would have worked out for us to have used his actions. Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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Has it ever occurred to anyone that every time there is a pissing match on the gunsmithing forum Howard and Customsux are involved in it? The usual others will be along shortly. | |||
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I was thinking the same thing about you but to me this here is not a pissing match no matter how much you might like it to be. Nor did the other thread turn into a pissing match despite your lame attempts to make it one. Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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Has anyone noticed when 22WRF is getting his ass chewed that Duikerman shows up to defend him. His alter ego. Go figure. And now the two of him are arguing with himself on the other thread. | |||
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Then why did you refer to your dealings with Satterlee as a "fiasco" | |||
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posted by kcstott: "Theses two have a dispute. Why tell the world about it??" You tell the world about it so that the next poor SOB doesn't make the same mistakes. NOT telling the world has caused a lot of grief, just ask the poor folks who were bilked by R.L.'Larry' Wilson for decades before he (finally!) had to go to prison! Not saying that anyone here would be dishonest but some behaviors, if repeated and publicized, should be deal-breakers before the fact. Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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Hey Kevin aka Blue aka 22WRF I think I already answered that on the other thread. Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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I have. | |||
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Kerry, you posted that 7 hours after Howard and Stuart put this thread to rest. Did you realize that it had already been hashed out? What was the purpose of reopening it? I am amazed that so many people object to negative information being passed along. Do you believe only positive experiences should be mentioned? Over the past few years many people have put deposits down on equipment solely on learning about it over the internet. Many have been burned(Teenut, Hein, ...). It is important that we share all information, both positive and negative. How many more would be suckered in if only positive information was posted? Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Howard and Customstox I don't know who Duikerman is. I have never met him. I am just happy to see that Howard has finally gotten his project off the ground so that he and his son can have the set of matching rifles that they have wanted for a long time. If you guys want to come after me for whatever else I have said thats fine with me. I am still looking forward to seeing the finished product. Happy New Year. | |||
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Ah, there's one now.  | |||
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Hey dickerman: Customstox asked question, I answered it. Has nothin' to do with a pissin' contest, unless you and your little pal Kevin make it into one. So,  | |||
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Craigster Customstox is Duikerman. He was REM 721 as well. No matter. Glad to see that he will be making Howards stocks. Whatever disagreements he and I have, he is a great stockmaker. Not only that, he is a good friend of Howards, which will make those rifles even more cherished. A good deal all around. | |||
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Actually I am Duikerman and Chic is also Blue. Rem 721 is Jim Kobe. Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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If ever there was a fiasco, it's this thread. And all because someone threw a spear at a reputable manufacturer of custom actions. | |||
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What an idiot. Glad to see nobody else thinks that way. Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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I really love the duble standard among guys her on this forum It is perfectly ok to promote own excelencies It is perfectly ok to brag about the jobs you have done. It is perfectly ok to take all the bennefits of the internet. BUT REMEMBER THE INTERNET IS A DUBLEEDGED SWORD Logicaly is should be, but it isn't ok to: Tell when the promisses of some of all the internet gunsmiths guru's turns out to be hot air Tell when the guys promoting their stuff her, doesnt deliver what they prommissed Tell when guys promoting here takes your depossit, for a long period, and then vanishes. Or is forced to pay you back, without giving you any kind of interest of the money you provided as a loan. Surely there is a lot of talent among guys here, but a litle more humble aproach, would be nice. Pleas stop all the wiening about how dificult it is to survive in this trade. Try thinking that the cause might be "i ame simply not efficient or rutiened enough" Try considering that every time you lock your money in prepaying some fluffy illution, you actualy dont support the honnest and reliable companies who has the pride and selvcritisem to say "i doo it for my own interest, and at my own risk" This comment is not directed at the debate between Timan and Howard. But here is a frindley advice from a colegue to Timan saying "Your whife handles the internet mutch viser" She actualy saved your ass the last time, so dont force her to have to doo it again  . You are a werry talented craftsmann, but perhaps a little hot headed  | |||
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I don't think anyone is saying that it isn't okay to do those things. My point was, how does anyone know the exact truth. How about this JA RGEN Where is the Rifle I ordered from you 4 years ago that I paid you for? The last time I wasted money on an overseas phone call to ask where it was you told me you almost had it done. I am getting tired of calling and calling and calling and calling. Obviously not true. But some people might believe it. Some people might get angry about it. And now you have a public relations mess on your hands to deal with. | |||
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Hi 22wrf As i never charge prepayment, i always wondered , where did those 500$ come from, that was transfered form a marked where we never sell anything to. But as i couldn't figure it out, i decided to fill up my car with a full tank of disel, then i went to the nearest McDonnald and bought a burger, so from now on i dont need to wonder anymore  My point was that the guys that want to promote their products for free on the internet, also has to accept the other side of the sword. If a matter pops up, you has the possibility to answer to the matter. But you better be 100% honnest in your answer, as you might risk that the complaining guy might have som sort of dokumentations. Personaly i prefer the risk, linked to the internet, as it is also a unike oportunity to show how you handle crises, You can even do it in public, and then customers might gain mutch more confidence in your buissnesmoral, Specially as it was not a matter started by your selve as a promotion stunt | |||
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and it's perfectly ok to brag about the money you're spending on "matching" rifles and it's perfectly ok to call a legitimate dealer a "fiasco" But when the same folks are involved in every pissing contest that happens and admittedly in a less than sober condition, reference customsux comments, then it just needs to be pointed out. Such arrogance. | |||
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LOL so now the real issue finally comes out. You are like the dog that barks at the passing cars never realizing that the car doesn't even know you are there. My comments about Satterlee are 100 percent accurate and were proved by his own emails to me. I wondered why you continued to beat a dead horse. Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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jørgen I rarely agree with you, but you are 100% correct. A few of the hypocrites around here could learn a great deal from your two posts. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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