I have a question about the Riihimaki. In looking at pictures of it the comb of the stock slants down and appears to be designed for iron sight use.

I am looking for a trim 22 cal centerfire sporter to use as a calling rifle and all around carry rifle but will only be used with a scope.

Does anyone have feedback on the Sako for this purpose?

Also is it available in 223?

All of them I've seen were .222's, and were probably before the .223 existed. The stocks on the ones I've had were plenty high for scope use.

Howard, I could e-mail you pics of mine. It is a single shot 222. You can rechamber to .223 if you choose.
Butch

It sounds like you are looking for an L46 - detachable magazine and safety located on bolt shroud. Those are the rifles most commonly marked Riihimaki (the location of the Sako plant). I would not be surprised though, if some guns built on the successor L461 action would also be shipped with barrels marked such. Sako has always had a tradition of using components from one series to the next.

If you are indeed looking for an L46, I don't think they came chambered in .223 Rem. .22 Hornet, .222 Rem and .222 Rem Mag for sure. Because of the detachable magazine, I'm guessing it would be complicated to rechamber a .222 chambered rifle to .223.

I'm not sure about the stock vs. open sights.

- mike

A good friend of mine owned an L-46 deluxe, for many years, which was chambered for the .222 Rem Mag. I eventually sold it for him at a gun show. It was an absolutely lovely little rifle and I would own it myself except that someone had sawed about 2" off the butt, to fit a child or a small woman.

Add for calibers available .218 Bee and 7 x33 Sako.

Last Saturday I saw one of these rifles in 222 with a one piece Mannlicher stock (not the 2-piece that came later). What a gem, I've never seen one of these rifles before, it had a square bolt shroud and the safety looked like it was mounted on the shroud much like an enfield. (Didn't look that closely) The stock seemed OK for scope use. Stock was very "blonde".

The L-46 (or Riihimaki) Sakos had a stock that was a little lower than the later L-461, and the later L-461 and A-I stocks had a higher comb still. None were so low that a properly low-mounted scope was too high, but the later models are a better fit for scope mounting.

The L-46 (shroud safety, detachable magazine) was never made in .223. The first .223's were made on the L-461 (trigger safety, floorplate magazine), often called the "Vixen", as was the later very similar A-I action.

"never" is a very chancy word to use when referring to Sakos. There are all kinds of exceptions to the supposed rules. For instance, most "afficionados" will insist that Sako never produced the Finnbear in .458 Winchester Magnum. My best friend happens to own one of them, complete with the Sako, Riihimaki stamp on the barrel., and I know where there is one other in town.

Pete Millan,
I hunted in your area, first near Baltimore, then at Sterkriviere, 2 years ago. Breath-takingly beautiful province you live in, and the people treated us like royalty!

Howard - What is a "calling" rifle? Is that for use in varmint calling, like a "coyote" rifle? Not trying to be a smart ass, I just am not familiar with that term.

BTW, I prefer the Sako L-42's over all their later rifles. I have one in 7x33 which is just about perfect for 'yotes.

As for magazines, one might try phoning the factory in Finland. That's what I did a few years back and was able to pick up brand new mags shipped by airmail from the factory for my L-46's, in both .218 Bee and 7x33.

The thing a person wants NOT to do is buy any Sako magazines from Alaska via e-Bay unless he personally knows the seller is a person of their word. I bought one at a rather high price from an Alaskan seller, and it is a useless, shoddy, fake. I complained to the seller and rather than give my money back, he said he would send me the one from his own personal rifle which he knew was not a fake. Well, it was another fake exactly like the first one. A person would be better off using their money to light the cooking fire in deer camp than buying any of those, in my opinion.

The only 458 Win I ever saw was Bill the gunsmith's at Stoeger in Hackensack in the mid 1980's. He said that the torque on the action precluded sufficient bedding without an additional bedding block located on the barrel. He also said it was one of the most accurate Sako's he had shot.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Howard - What is a "calling" rifle? Is that for use in varmint calling, like a "coyote" rifle?

Yes that is what I mean. What is the 7x33? Don't think I have heard of that one.

I will check out the L-46's thank you.

Howard,
I always like the 6mm cheap shot that Jack Belt built on is Sakos. It was basically just a .223 necked up to 6mm.

We will have to compare notes when I get the 5X35 SMC up and running.

You have really gone over to the dark side. I worry about you. When I first met you it was "it is better to have no money and have wood then to have money and have no wood" and "life is to short to hunt with an ugly gun" and you couldn't stand the thought of either a "plastic" stock or a non-mauser rifle. Not its plastic stocks and savages and wildcats after years of swearing you would have nothing but factory cartridges.

You need to start drinking again. LOL

quote:

Originally posted by Customstox:
We will have to compare notes when I get the 5X35 SMC up and running.

Yes I like the cheapshot too..........someday

what is the 5x35? you havn't told me anything about it.

Howard.
The 7x33 SAKO was introduced in 1946 and chambered in the in the Sako L-46 rifle.
The case is an elongated 9x19 Parabellum. It was loaded with a 79 grain solid and softpoint bullets. The soft pointed is loaded to 2,620 fps, the solid at around 2360fps is used as a Bird cartridge in Finland.

The above is from the vihtavuori reloading manual.

Ron, who did you hunt with at Sterk Rivier? That's just over the mountain from me. Used to hunt a lot of baboon in that area. Sadly, lost my connection.

quote:

Originally posted by Howard:
What is the 7x33? Don't think I have heard of that one.

The 7x33 is a uniquely Finn development, designed to be a distinct cartridge not similar or to be confused with that of any other country, out of a bit of national pride. It was first produced for the L-42 rifle, which was first produced in 1942...during the middle of World War II, but as a SPORTER! The Finns are HARDY folk. They were in the middle of a real war zone and had just been in savage fighting against the entire red army.

According to one of the original designers of the rifle & cartridge with whom I discussed it at length following his retirement in the 1970's, all of their rifle cartridge-making machinery was tied up in production for the Finland (& German then Russian) military forces at that point. So the only practical cartridge for their new L-42 rifle had to be made on machinery designed for (and of a size originally intended for) producing the 9 m/m Parabellum round.

The longest case they could make on that machinery was 33 m/m long, hence the length of the new cartridge. The head size is the same as that of the Parabellum (Luger P-08) round, again to make use of existing machinery/tooling. It is very easy to make brass from the 9m/m Winchester Mag brass, but it might be even more scarce than the real 7x33 stuff, depending on one's sources of supply and country of residence.

The case is bottlenecked, and was factory loaded with 77 gr. .284 jacketed bullets, both FMJ and SP varieties. They used to make runs of brass and loaded ammo every three years, but I don't know if they still are doing so. In 1978 I bought the last 1,000 rounds of loaded ammo they had in stock at that time, but they were scheduled to make more in 1980. That was expensive stuff! Air freight alone from Finland was $100 U.S., not including the price of the cartridges, and at the time that was a lot of money. By the time it was all landed, freight, duty, tax, customs agent, and original ammo costs paid, it ran me a flat $1 per round for the 1,000 rounds!

The L-42, BTW, was orginally marketed as a Seal-hunting rifle, but sales didn't quite hit the marketing target. Matter of fact, the great bulk of the L-42's were sold in Brazil and Australia. I picked mine up at a gun show in Calgary, Alberta, Canada though. How it got there is a mystery I'll never solve. According to factory records in the 1970s, none were ever sent from the factory directly to Canada or the U.S.

The L-42 looks very much like an L-46, but has a different safety, a very slightly dimensionally different magazine, a military "tangent" style rear sight on the sporter profile barrel, and a barrel band around the forend and barrel. It DID (does) use the same Sako scope sight mounts we are all used to seeing on the L-46's and 461's.

Mine, though with an ugly as sin "Suigi"-type stock finish, is phenomenally accurate. It also is a peppy little thing. At 100 yards it shoots holes right through the steel Silhouette targets made for .22 competition...the holes look as if they had been very neatly drilled with about a 7/16" drill. I found that out the hard way when I had to buy some new targets for the Namaka, Alberta rifle club.

I can document the above dates/info, with original written letters from the designer with whom I discussed it.


As an aside....if that particular cartridge case-making machinery was in common use in other parts of Europe too, do you suppose perhaps it's length capacity had some influence on the size of the then-new 8x33 StG cartridge used in the German MP-44 as well?

Great info thank you

Alberta,
It's interesting you date the x33 to 1942, Vihtavouri mention it, but state that "it did not materialise". They have at least one other date for the year of introduction which is not correct, the 9.3x64.
A few years ago, here in New Zealand, a nice little Sako L46 in 7x33 was for sale at a gun show. I was aware of what it was and that ammunition would be difficult to obtain, therefore I did not buy it. Silly me! Another one that got away.

Pete, I hunted with Neil Barnard. His mom and dad, Dannie and Diane, wonderful folks, own a farm at SterkRiviere. They wake up every day looking at HangKlip, my what a magnificent vista! They grow mostly oranges with a bit of grain as well. We stopped off to visit them for a couple of days. Shot baboons and bush pig but the most fun, by far, was shooting francolin and guinea fowl, with a borrowed Beretta Silver Snipe, while standing in the rear of a bakkie that was moving at about 30 kph. Wing shooting in six dimensions is a whole new challenge!!

Hi Ron,

I half suspected it might be Niel as I know the Barnard family very well. Whenever Daan is in town he brings me a bag of oranges or lemons. There were some big bushpigs in his irrigation wheat. Haven't been out there a while as I used to shoot baboons for his one-time farm manager Clive. Clive's moved on and now Neil uses the property for baboon shooting for his own clients, so I cannot hunt there no more. Pulled off some peachy long range shots in the mountains above the homestead.

quote:

Originally posted by oldun:
Alberta,
It's interesting you date the x33 to 1942, Vihtavouri mention it, but state that "it did not materialise". They have at least one other date for the year of introduction which is not correct, the 9.3x64.
A few years ago, here in New Zealand, a nice little Sako L46 in 7x33 was for sale at a gun show. I was aware of what it was and that ammunition would be difficult to obtain, therefore I did not buy it. Silly me! Another one that got away.

The problems with guns and their histories are much the same in Finland as in the U.S., and in the rest of the European countries...most of the old guys who "were there and did that" are gone to the great hunting fields in the sky.

So, the people writing many of the books and passing on the lore now often have no real idea of what the heck they are talking about.

That's not because they are stupid or evil or anything like that. Generally they are reasonably intelligent, well intentioned, and saying what they think is correct. BUT, they DO need to learn to do real research and take the time to do it. There are some examples of real researchers on this forum, by the way.....and their info is excellent and really invaluable. But there are also a lot of Keyboard Kommandos here, too, so one has to be circumspect in choosing what to take as fact.

As to the Sako 7x33 coming out in 1942, that is fairly easy to determine beyond a reasonable doubt. It was the very first chambering of the L-42 rifle series which became the later L-46 and then mutated into the 461. The little action was actually designed around the then new and novel 7x33...the .222 Remington didn't even exist in ANYBODY's rifles until years later in the 1950's. We KNOW the L-42's came in 7x33 because that is what mine is, and they pre-dated ALL the L-46's. It was also produced in fair numbers in .218 Bee.

So, basically, any books which date the 7x33 only back to the L-46 are just plain wrong, and are repeating an all-too-commonly-published error. Matter of fact, the designer I alluded to before complained to me in 1978 about the lack of historical knowledge of the young people at the Sako factory as one of his pet peeves. He was pretty unimpressed by many of them and made no bones about his feelings.

Should you come across another 7x33 and want to get it, I CAN supply at least a little original ammo if our governments will allow it. I have about 900 rounds of FMJ factory boxer-primed rounds on hand at present. But were I you, I would look to makers such as Starline (Sierra) and others, to see if I could find some 9m/m Winchester Mag brass to re-form instead. Would be MUCH less expensive in the long run, and probably just as good brass.

Howard,

Chic quit drinking??? Now that explains a lot.

Should you come across another 7x33 and want to get it, I CAN supply at least a little original ammo if our governments will allow it. I have about 900 rounds of FMJ factory boxer-primed rounds on hand at present. But were I you, I would look to makers such as Starline (Sierra) and others, to see if I could find some 9m/m Winchester Mag brass instead. Would be MUCH less expensive in the long run, and probably just as good brass.[/QUOTE]

That is very kind! Thank you

quote:

"never" is a very chancy word to use when referring to Sakos.

Agreed. There were lots of uncataloged variations, serial numbers are illogical, and the factory seems to have kept practically no records. However, as the L46 was out of production by the time the .223 was introduced, there were never any factory-chambered L46s in .223.

Albert: Your info on the 7x33 is extremely interesting to all of us Sako aficianados. Although I've prowled gun shows and classifieds for better than 40 years looking for Sakos, I've never run across the 7x33. I would absolutly love to own one! I'm glad you set folks straight on the size of the cartridge. Many people errantly believe that it is built on the 39mm Russian ("PPC") case.

Howard,
HERE is the link for the outfit that came up with the 5x35 SMC and a few other rounds. It is basically a 20 BR with a very different shoulder.

It is a lot easier to load than my .218bee/.338winmag/50BR case and the 5x35 only has one shoulder where mine has 3.

I have never experienced any difficulties with my L46 in having trouble aquiring the scope reticle. But then again, It is used mostly on a bench or across a rest while varmint hunting. As far as different calibers in Sako, I knew a guy who had an early Vixen factory chambered for the fireball cartridge. This may have been a choice of calibers, but the only vixen I have seen in it.

Go to the Sako collectors club website. Part of the msn groups. A fellow just posted a pic. of his 3 L46s', 2 in 7x33 and a 25-20. One of the 7x33 is in a mannlicher stock.
Butch

I wish I knew how to post pics here. I would post my L-42 7x33, and my L-46 in .222 Remington. The latter was bought just a year ago last February, new and unfired. I have since shot it (I won't own a gun I can't shoot), and it is very nicely accurate.