I got hold of a tiny little levergun, a wincester model 92 with a 38cm(15") barrel, saddle ring, and side mounted sling braces.

What I can't figure out it caliber;
It is marked 44WCF on the barrel, but on the reciever it has:


358
POLICIA Prov. SANTA FE
CAL.45 REFORMOOTME-CBA.(RA)

Stamped into it, hardly viible in one part, the "REFORMOOTME" isn't so clear where it appears to say "OOTM" the rest is quite legible.

Before I go makeing up a cast of the chamber, can anyone tell me what calibre this rifle should may be?

It sounds like a Spanish police carbine in 44/40. The 358 is probably rhe rack#. Don,t overload it. I don,t know about the law where you are but that short barrel is not legal in the USA.
Good Luck!

quote:

Originally posted by hawkins:
I don,t know about the law where you are but that short barrel is not legal in the USA.
Good Luck!

It most certainly is according to Federal law, as long as you get your Short Barrel Rifle stamp from the BATFE.

While some states do outlaw the possesion of full auto (for which an NFA stamp is available from the Feds), very few, if any restrict the ownnership of SBRs.

quote:

Originally posted by EXPRESS:
I got hold of a tiny little levergun, a wincester model 92 with a 38cm(15") barrel, saddle ring, and side mounted sling braces.

What I can't figure out it caliber;
It is marked 44WCF on the barrel, but on the reciever it has:


358
POLICIA Prov. SANTA FE
CAL.45 REFORMOOTME-CBA.(RA)

Stamped into it, hardly viible in one part, the "REFORMOOTME" isn't so clear where it appears to say "OOTM" the rest is quite legible.

Before I go makeing up a cast of the chamber, can anyone tell me what calibre this rifle should may be?

Obviously, the barrel WAS ONCE a .44 WCF, or .44/40 Winchester. But is sounds as if it may have been rebored for a .45 caliber cartridge of some sort. If I had it in my hands, I'd try a .45 Colt case and see if it could be chambered in it, as well as a .44/40 case. If you don't have a .45 Colt case, the first step would be to carefully drive a soft lead slug through the bore to determine the land & groove diameter. If this turns out to be in the vicinity of .426"-.429", it is still a .44/40. If it is a .45 of some size, then the chamber cast would be the next step.

Express: that is a regular Winchester 92 in 44-40 that was reformed to 45 ACP for police use. In Argentina the 45 ACP was the official caliber for all armed forces for many years. These short carbines were useful in many places, including banks long ago. I´ve sold many of these once upon a time.
The 45 Colt almost surely don´t fit, but of course do a cast of the chamber to be triple sure.
Good luck

Moreover it was reformed at an arsenal in Córdoba Province for the Santa Fe Province´s police. Several of these guns were used by guards in the now defunct prison in Isla de los Estados (near the South Pole).

It seems that it doesn't fit .45ACP either, I just tried feeding some through it and they would not extract.

I cut down a .45Casull case until it would fit and found that once it was ACP length it fit and extracted too, so now I'm thinking .45 autorim?

I am just wondering, and maybe someone here will tell me it's a bad idea...but what about trying a light load in a cut down .454 Casull case under a 230gn cast slug just for kicks and to see if I get any forming to take chamber measurements from?

Time for a chamber cast.

Be sure. It's .45 ACP
Common modification in Argentina 40/50 years ago in a model 1892.
Hector

quote:

Originally posted by EXPRESS:
It seems that it doesn't fit .45ACP either, I just tried feeding some through it and they would not extract.

I cut down a .45 Casull case until it would fit and found that once it was ACP length it fit and extracted too, so now I'm thinking .45 autorim?

I am just wondering, and maybe someone here will tell me it's a bad idea...but what about trying a light load in a cut down .454 Casull case under a 230gn cast slug just for kicks and to see if I get any forming to take chamber measurements from?

Sounds like it was rebored to .45 and chambered for the .45 ACP but the extractor hook is too short to grasp the extractor groove and pull out the empty. (Changing the extractor should have been part of the conversion.) If the .454 case cut down will feed and extract OK, there is no reason why you could not use such cutoff brass with a regular .45 ACP load in it. It is pretty likely that the rim on a .45 Auto Rim case might be too thick, as the .44/40 Win. case has the same head size & shape as a .45 Colt case, with the thinner rim. Of course, if a cut-down .454 Casull case will work, so will a cut-down .45 Colt case, since they are the same except for length. And .45 Colt brass is cheaper.....

Ok, .45ACP makes sense, moreso than .45 autorim and long cases don't fit.

The gun seems to have feeding issues as well as extraction.

It won't feed in one smoothe motion, the round, be it .45ACP or the cut down Casull go halfway into the chamber then jam, and you need to lower the lever agian, let the round straighten up then close the breech.

Also, if you load through the magazine, and cycle the action quickly the rounds just spin right out of the gun like empties...

I think it's going to need some gunsmithing attention if it's going to see any action...

I would do that for sure. If the breech closes on rimmed round then it's either modified since it left Argentina or there's such excessive headspace that a 45 ACP is gonna float in the chamber. Either way you need to know.

Well, it will fire .45ACP rounds, and fired rounds get pushed back enough that the ejector can get a hold on them, so fired cases will extract. Getting them to feed is another proces, sometimes, if you get the angle right it will actually feed single rounds from the magazine, but once you put another into the tube, the pressure from the spring causes shells to ride up over each other and everything goes awry.

It looks like the case has no real recess for the rim, just a bit of a space which is very rough, wouldn't be surprised if it needs rechambering.

It's a neat little rifle, at the moment does't belong to me so I might not have any more to do with it, unless I can work out an arrangement whereby I can keep it if I get it working...