I posted on an old thread and it ended up at the bottom of the page.

So...we have made the commitment to make rail type pot belly bottom metal for the
Enfield.

The opening will be large enough for 505. This will work for 375/416 Rigby without much effort

Not too keen on making boxes... But will listen!

Cost will be something in between 1M and M-70

If you are seriously interested in these constraints, please run it past me...no deposits or anything like that...just serious interest. Please send ideas, complaints, sniveling, whining, bitching to me direct,cgrs@earthlink,net. Thanks a bunch

btt

You brought up the box, not me.

I'm in, email sent a few weeks ago.

Duane,

I'd be in for one assembly, possibly two. But remember that mag boxes are half the battle. I wouldn't mind if the boxes were an additional cost to the bottom metal. I personally cant justify a Rigby on an Enfield without a proper box. I'm sure that there are others with the same sentiment.

Could you tease us with some drawings or cad pictures when you have them?

I'll offer my comments here as I've sent info to Duane outlining the best proposal for the Enfield. Here's few excerpts

1) Make it 2 pc ie like the Remington 700 or Winchester 70. Advantages - flexiblity of box size. If you are currently using staightened military metal, generally you need to fabricate a box to suit the cartridge your using ...the exception is if you're staying with a 303 or
30-06 based calibre.
2) Design off the Model 30 factory sporter metal as the rails are heavier and a dimensionally larger at the front tang so it can be used in most all retrofit application(will cover a lot of sins). Advantage....saves a new stock in most cases.
3) Use Duane's Mauser bow and inside release.
4) Use Duane's straddle floorplate design however redimension to fit the Model 30 metal.
5) Offer an option for a drop floor plate to give the Rigby look. Wisner makes such a plate for the CZ550 and BRNO ZKK602. Gives you one extra down on 375 H&H or 416 Rigby.

This proposal will maximum economy in material use and reduce machining time over a one piece. I'd much rather inlet a 2 piece over a one piece any day. The Enfield is a big action and has a lot of depth in the magazine.....great for any magnum.

For your comments,
Ron

PS I'm in for 4 to 6 2pc....not interested in one piece.

quote:

1) Make it 2 pc ie like the Remington 700 or Winchester 70. Advantages - flexiblity of box size. If you are currently using staightened military metal, generally you need to fabricate a box to suit the cartridge your using ...the exception is if you're staying with a 303 or
30-06 based calibre.
2) Design off the Model 30 factory sporter metal as the rails are heavier and a dimensionally larger at the front tang so it can be used in most all retrofit application(will cover a lot of sins). Advantage....saves a new stock in most cases.
3) Use Duane's Mauser bow and inside release.
4) Use Duane's straddle floorplate design however redimension to fit the Model 30 metal.
5) Offer an option for a drop floor plate to give the Rigby look. Wisner makes such a plate for the CZ550 and BRNO ZKK602. Gives you one extra down on 375 H&H or 416 Rigby.

+1

With rgg_7's help...we will see what we can up with on boxes...one thing's pretty certain..we can only offer the pot belly config for this run

I would be interested in one, possibly two.

Okay...hate to be a pain...but...I would like some opinions on: Should the rails be flat...say like a Rem 30 or already have the offset for the extra round?

rgg_7 suggests an optional thicker floorplate to accomodate the extra round, leave the rails flat.

I guess this would better fit into the plans for the folks using "semi inlets"??

Flat would be the way I would like it. I was never a fan of the dogleg in the original military metal. It's not the same as a true drop box and the grip never felt right to me. Maybe sell it without the floorplate and have 2 plate options. just an idea. That way you could eliminate excess inventory, same as with the seperate mag box.
-Don

Actualy, I wasn't referring to the dog leg in the front, but the junction at the rear of the magazine and front of trigger guard. On "pot belly" the line at the bottom of the "magazine box" would be lower than the top of upper inside line of the trigger guard...about .187" This would not work on a pre machined semi inlet. (unless a pattern were made)

Thanks for the clarifiction, now it's clear. And yes, a pot belly as you decribe it sounds like a better alterative than flat, but it would rule out semi-inlets. But I would guess most people wanting to use a custom bottom metal at a custom price would probably not be using a semi-inlet anyway.
-Don

My fault!

BTW, what's the ETA on your 2M and 2MX? I keep forgeting to call during normal hours for you guys on the west coast.
-Don

The 3MX is coming off the line in about three weeks (maybe less).. Then to the Mex Mausers and Enfield. 2MX thereafter. Realistically, we're trying to get a new model each month...there's a learning curve here...the next cycle will go much faster. The 3MX is really nice! only .001-002 deviation from C/L...all in technique!..much cleaner work!

Using 1018 has it drawbacks...tougher on tools and more difficult to machine than leaded stock.

I recently welded tang extensions... the bottom metal (brand X) is made from leaded stock. Where I made the weld, using 1018, the rust blue is blue/black..the rest has a hint of grey...from past experience, this leaded stock just does not rust blue well..caustic blues OK

Would the bottom metal work for the Remington 720?
If so, count me in for one.

quote:

Originally posted by slancey:
Would the bottom metal work for the Remington 720?
If so, count me in for one.

Yes it will...

I am working on a few model 30-s right now and I could use a few to replace some bottoms on rifles in service now If they are 30-06 based and big enough to open up for the big stuff it will be great easyer to remove stock than add it .

I like the coffin lid idea for the extra round better than a perch belly of the whole bottom end.


got any drawings of what this might look like. and a real cost estimate?

Count me in for one. I'll check with my gunsmith to see if more. He's almost ready to begin building several 500 Jeffery's on Enfields.

Can you please give us a time on the 2MX ? And can it be had with the rear hole not drilled? Earl

My ignorance is showing, but is there a difference in a dropped-box and the pot-bellied configuration?

I'd be in for one...

Well...in my ignorance, I meant the same thing. Here's what "the drums"say we should do:

Make a standard flat bottom metal, something like the 30s. We will then offer a thicker florplate to accomodate an extra round. This should take care of the semi inlets and also offer the option of the extra round...Does this make sense? Opinions please. We will start on "something for Enfields" in three weeks, so need feed back pronto.

For me, it would depend on how thick the floorplate winds up being. I've seen some of the Brit rifles that had so much metal protruding below the bottom line of the stock that the lines and appearance of the rifle was ruined.

Go to the "BigBore form " and search under "husky". He has a thread started on a 505 Gibbs with the Rigby "coffin" plate. This is the recommendation. As an option the standard Mauser straddle plate dimensioned to the Model 30 profile.

Duane..I will have dwgs in the mail to you early next week.


Great project...there indeed is a "need".

Ron

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:
Well...in my ignorance, I meant the same thing. Here's what "the drums"say we should do:

Make a standard flat bottom metal, something like the 30s. We will then offer a thicker florplate to accomodate an extra round. This should take care of the semi inlets and also offer the option of the extra round...Does this make sense? Opinions please. We will start on "something for Enfields" in three weeks, so need feed back pronto.

Duane, if you can find a copy of "Winchester bolt action military and sporting rifles 1877 to 1927." by Houze, Chapter 14 has some period illustrations of the bottom metal as fitted to the Winchwester 51 rifle, a rifle that Winchester developed from the Enfield M17. Its a shame that it did not come to fruition though most would say the eventual Model 70 more than made up for it but in my opinion, the style of bottom metal that this had would be exactly the sort of thing I would like to see you develope, think Enfield type floorplate but hinged & a Mauser type trigger guard floor plate release. I would love to try & recreate a 51 styled rifle, so could well be a customer for bottom metal such as this.
Steve

I do not have that book..could you perhaps scan and send a copy of the page? cgrs@earthlink.net

quote:

Originally posted by Big Earl:
Can you please give us a time on the 2MX ? And can it be had with the rear hole not drilled? Earl

The 2MX is coming right after we get thru the Enfields...I'll check about the rear hole

Thanks for the reply Mr. Wiebe. The non-drilled hole is for adoption to the improved Mauser of 1903 as produced by the boys at Frankford Arsenal so I can get the proper angle. Sure would be nice to build an Enfield like the one on the inside of Alvin Lindens book on the Enfield. IMO, I would not prioritize adoption to semi-inlets over clean lines. Even rank armatures like myself go strait from the stick or use a pattern stock.

I would love to see an extended floorplate for the P-14/17 actions that would give 1 or 2 extra rounds (depending on caliber) and could be easily fit to already stocked rifles with little modification. I would be in for one for me P-14 .416 Rigby. Reblueing a bottom guard to match is easy to do but restocking would just cost to much.

Thanks for your input...We've pretty well decided to make a replacment guard (sraight, w/o "dog leg") and an optional "coffin style floor plate for the extra round capacity...up to 505 Gibbs.

The rails are the same as original, the mag box will determine which cartridge. The floorplate is long enough to cover the 505 config.

Some metal will have to be removed from the front of the frame opening for the 505....3/16" or so. The optional floor plate (coffin style) is already milled out for the long cartridge.

We had in mind to satisfy the folks that had semi inlets. We made the tangs .650 wide, so you'll have to take out a little wood...Price??? Dunno!

Would one be able to use just the "coffin style floor plate" for the +1 round? My P-14 has the original pot belly / dog leg guard. adapting the guard to the foor plate is fine, but it would just have to work with the existing stock.

No

how fast can I get 2 of these even PROTO for evaluation would be ok I want to try this out if It works I will need about 13 or so of these would be glad to buy the first one.

Duane-

Any update on the Enfield bottom metal?

Just checking in.

Thanks in advance.

FWIW: I have a couple of actions apart in the same drawer. I happened to pick up a P14 action and a Turk mauser bottom and they are a dead match. Looks like loss of two rounds capacity. In all the articles I have read about gunsmithing the P14/17 I never heard anybody mention the Mauser fit.

The rear screw is a little different the 1917 and p14 is on an angle. But it can be and has been done before.
Don

well? anything yet?

God I hope so! Our replacement 3MX's are supposed to be ready for assembly late next week. The 2MX's are close behind (lots of the same tooling)....The programs are close to complete for the Enfield and we will be starting them as soon as the 2MX is far enough ahead to loosen up the first machine./...sorta like musical chairs...

Update? Please.........