I have a 1920’s era Oberndorf Type M 30-06 action. It has the butter knife handle. It has two scope base mounting holes up front and one behind the charging hump in the rear. What are my best options for classic European style bases? I will be making this into a Type M stutzen style rifle with open sights, but I would like a low mounted scope option for when I can’t see well anymore.

Classic European and Low are usually mutually exclusive; look at NECG and pick one you like, from Talley type to claw.

3 holes = 1 piece mount.

This is my Model M .30-'06, with the bolt handle modified by Griffin & Howe, presumably at the same time they installed the G&H side mount. This was in the early days, when it was considered important to have both iron sights and scope ready for instant use.



The three holes indicate a bridge mount, probably a Redfield or Buehler. Unfortunately they do not share a common hole spacing, so it is important to determine which one when looking for a base.

The lowest currently available scope mount for a M98 that I know of is the Leupold/Redfield base and Leupold Super Low 1" rings.

Not sure that there will be adequate clearance for your butter knife bolt handle base, though.

dpcd is right. Europeans mount scopes to also serve duty as a carry handle didn't you know.

I can't say I've ever seen a European low mounted scope and i spent a year in old West Germany and neighbouring countries with hunters and firearm collectors and also hunting myself with a variety of rifles so I have seen more than a few.

If you are willing to alter the bolt handle on Mausers, fairly radically if wanting a real low mounted scope, and use some good low Weaver bases and the original style Weaver rings then you have a chance of getting what you are looking for, still retaining use of the open sights.

Of course the puritans will cut in here vomiting at the mere mention of Weaver while they battle away with ridiculously looking carry handles of top heavy unbalanced scopes, as they translate to.

I solved the problem of low mounting a scope on my Type A Oberndorf this way when I didn't want to alter the bolt handle and would never put up with a European mount of any sort. Has worked and never shifted for just over four decades of use, just can't get any lower than this.

Thanks for all of the advice, folks. I think I’ll just plug the holes, for now, with set screws, and worry about a scope when my eyes need one. I intend a short 35 Whelen or 9.3x62 for close work in the thick stuff anyway.

Matt,

Consider having an XS style peep made to attach to the bridge using the existing holes. Since you intend an open sight rifle, using a peep, you may never need a scope for the ranges you'll likely be shooting at.

Good advise of the peep.

Dave

A couple of decades ago when Yugoslav M48's were being sold new for $50 I restocked this one and made a peep for it. It'll shoot honest 1" groups at 100 even now with my crappy eyes.

quote:

The three holes indicate a bridge mount, probably a Redfield or Buehler. Unfortunately they do not share a common hole spacing, so it is important to determine which one when looking for a base.

I was using a Buehler one piece for a Rem. M30 a few years back. The receiver was Drilled when I git it, 3 hole setup that didn't match the base. It was simple enough for the smith to modify the base to match up.

there is a catch to your question, and thats the butter knife bolt handles, which are designed for iron sights and must be modified to allow them to work without making contact with the scope inableing the gun to function...Several options are to have the bolt handle lowered a tad to clear the scope on the uplift, Europe used high bases and rings and that works, but if you require pressure point on your hold, you won't like them..I like low low rings and bases and modify my Brno mod. 21 and 22, for instance by lowering the bolt in such a manner as you can't tell its been done but it has and it works..Dennis Olson does this as well as it can be done and with a minimum of wood removal..Claw mounts are an option as are QD side mounts, but whatever you chose it must clear the bolt on cocking and its worth every penny...

Call me crazy, but by my way of thinking, nice Oberndorf commercial actions are rare enough, especially with the Butterknife handle, that there is no way that I will ever consider modifying it. I like the idea of the rear aperture like the one on Mike’s Yugo. However, a simple cocking piece mounted sight like those found on the very early Rigby’s is more in line with my taste. I one bought a Prechtl Rigby diopter repro from NECG. It was very heavy and bulky, so I sold it to a forum member. The earlier non-diopter version looks easy to make.

quote:

Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:
Call me crazy, but by my way of thinking, nice Oberndorf commercial actions are rare enough, especially with the Butterknife handle, that there is no way that I will ever consider modifying it. I like the idea of the rear aperture like the one on Mike’s Yugo. However, a simple cocking piece mounted sight like those found on the very early Rigby’s is more in line with my taste. I one bought a Prechtl Rigby diopter repro from NECG. It was very heavy and bulky, so I sold it to a forum member. The earlier non-diopter version looks easy to make.

The peep sight does solve some of the eyesight issues as the peep being close to the eye is always blurred anyway while the aperture helps with clarity of the front sight. However the peep still does not provide what a scope is good at, the ability to thread shots through bush. This is often important when bush shooting as it seems the OP is wanting to do with his Type M.

The little Leupold 2X shown in the photo of my Mauser provides a nice clear sight picture especially as my eyes have aged and only required a couple of tapped holes on the receiver and one on the rear of the safari sight. The OP already has a couple of tapped holes on the receiver of his Type M, don't know what type of rear sight he has but likely easy enough to rest a bridge mount on it if not to drill and tap a hole to attach the bridge to it like I did on mine.

The low v style Weaver bridge mount and QD rings allow use of the iron sights in an instant and give the advantages of a low mounted scope, all without altering the bolt handle whether knob or butter knife style.

Get a vintage Weaver 3x or 2.5x, they have the smallest bell of any 1" tube scope and may give you the clearance you need without mods to the bolt handle. A period Redfield one piece base will probably go on the receiver. Then you can pick the appropriate ring height to clear (probably need a medium but may need a high).

The Leupold Alaskan 7/8" scope is perfect on my European RJ Remmer Ruger with schnable and side panals..

Buy a TAlley rear base and a TAlley slip on peep, looks good and works..lots of options..

As to the butterknife bolt, Dennis Olson can lower that to work with a scope and you cannot tell its been touched. I don't know if anyone else can but he is he only one that has done it to satisfy me on the Brno 21, and 22s..I also have a fondness for the discontinued Leupold 3X, and they don't fog like a Weaver in Idahos winter hunts..

Considering Matt's disinclination to alter the bolt handle, maybe a compromise on the mount height should be considered. My favorite mounts now use Burris's Signature rings, which have swivelling, synthetic inserts that prevent scratching and bending scopes, with optional eccentric inserts to fix scope-alignment problems.

The only downside I found was there seemed to be no low ones.

I used the ones that fit the Universal bases but various other options are available. Though Burris didn't seem to provide 26mm inserts, the one-inch ones can be bored or lapped out, so if Matt found a good old European steel scope (to complement his rifle) while waiting for his eyes to fade, it could be mounted straight, with the reticle centred, quite easily.

In event the scope has old claw mounts soldered on, grinding/turning them down some distance can provide enough heat to melt the solder without having to strip the whole assembly.

You should be able to find and old Redfield 3 hole base thats cut away for the hump, Ive owned a few and might still have one,not sure..Ive seen them at gun shows btw..and I pretty sure Control made a set for a unmodified Mauser..I also have a few "LIttle boe peeps" made by Redfield that attache to the rear of the Redfield bases wit tiny screws and flips up and down and they neat and adjustable..but you still have to modify the bolt handle, and that can be done without changing a thing. You simply can't tell it been done if its done properly I can send you a picture of my Brno mod 21 with a modified bent bolt..if one didn't like it it could be cut and tiged back on to original..Just some options Ive used over the years...