I have a semi-inletted, 98 mauser, mannlicher length stock made of solid Brazilian Rosewood. Does this wood make a good rifle stock? I go it in a trade and I'm not sure what I can do with it.

Is it hard to work with?

Light calibers or big bore?

Any input would be greatly apreciated.

Very heavy, very difficult to finish.

You probably better count on using lacquer for the finish. Most other finishs you could normally use won't be compatible with the oil in rosewood. Might simply sand down to very fine paper, then polish with wax.

Emory

Rather than have my long winded explanation read this " Carefully " As it's Dalbergia nigra
you are concerned with if it's " True Brazilian Rosewood " ?.

It's heavy material for a stock ? , however if it's dry it will stay straight and true and

produce an EXCELLENT FINISH if done properly !.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrp/fpl_rp632.pdf

http://www.exoticwood.biz/woodchart.htm

http://www.google.com/imgres?i...lt&resnum=4&ct=image

I know from experience as I have several K's of BDFT of many of the above Exotic's

including ( Now ) restricted species no longer available .

Unfortunately most are not quite thick enough for single piece stocks and require my milling

and epoxying them for gunstock blanks !.

Its definately brazilian rosewood. Looks just like the sample pictures in the link you sent Doc. It is a little heavy. It has been milled for about 12 years and sitting in a closet. I would think it is dry.

Weights:
Walnut=35 pounds per cubic foot, nominally.
Brazillion Rosewood=50 pounds per cubic foot, same condition as above.

Rifle stocks of Brazillion Rosewood will be 50% heavier than Walnut.
Rosewood is much more difficult to work with compared to Walnut.
I've used a lot of both for knife handles. I doubt that Rosewood ever loses it's oil too. Oil doesn't dry out like water. That's the big advantage to using it for knife handles; it doesn't move around like unstabilized Walnut does, when it adds and gives up moisture.
Rosewood makes GREAT forend tips and grip caps however.
Don

i made one years ago - had to lacquer it for finish but it made quite a pretty stock, and it didn't move a smidgeon

I would add that sanding most of the rosewoods creates a dust that irritates many people. Not a BIG deal but you want to use a dust mask and it might irritate your skin (gloves). Rosewoods are used to make all kinds of things so I'm not steering you away from it. Just a note.

That is especially true of this wood . Gloves and positive air mask are what I recommend

if you should ever cut sand or even finish this wood . It produces a toxic poison which

can be sever or even deadly to persons who are or were once exposed too it's dust !.

Cocobolo
(dalbergia retusa)

As for the Brazilian Rosewood I would recommend Tung Oil and or a modified Urethane oil finish

Tru Oil . When dealing with certain exotics think of them as sort of like Teak ( Self Oiling )

They don't glue well or hold a non breathable finish unless proper precautions are taken !.

Good point on the dust from Rosewood, and a number of others, like Cocobola. I wear a mask when sanding.

Don

DMB and trez henzley pretty much nailed it......
i might add,
it's streangth and stability will allow you to mill out the fore arm and bore some lightening holes in the butt and get the weight down close to a walnut stock. i've seen rosewood pieces on boats that had no finish on them at all and looked beutiful, even after years of exposure to the elements of sailing. it's naturall oils stay in the wood and a stock can be finish sanded up and polished using a buffing wheel, to a beutiful sheen. it's quite dense enough by itself(no finish) to resist the normally carefull field handling of a good firearm

quote:

Originally posted by merlinron:
DMB and trez henzley pretty much nailed it......
i might add,
it's streangth and stability will allow you to mill out the fore arm and bore some lightening holes in the butt and get the weight down close to a walnut stock. i've seen rosewood pieces on boats that had no finish on them at all and looked beutiful, even after years of exposure to the elements of sailing. it's naturall oils stay in the wood and a stock can be finish sanded up and polished using a buffing wheel, to a beutiful sheen. it's quite dense enough by itself(no finish) to resist the normally carefull field handling of a good firearm

+1
A good point about finishing the exotic woods like we're discussing. I just sand then down to about 800 grit, then buff them with a fine compound using a 1750 rpm buffer and they hold that finish forever.

I did a little light sanding to remove the patina and see the true color. Its a deep purple/brown. I'm not sure I like the color even if the structural properties of the wood are ok for a gunstock. Sanding this stuff is like sanding hard rubber, it just galls up the sandpaper.

All of my gunsmith buddies and gun tinkerers had a hand in building a gun for my son's graduation from the US Naval Academy.

The stock was Brazilian Rosewood with lighter colored tropicalwood as the pistol grip and forend cap (gun is not here and I can't remember species). The stock maker finished it buy wiping with denatured alcohol and applying finish as soon as the alcohol evaporated, before the natural oils had time to resurface.

It is a truly beautiful stock with 30 LPI checkering and is not too heavy. It sports a Douglas Premium tapered octagon 30-06 barrel and all markings are engraved in script.

quote:

Originally posted by airgun1:
All of my gunsmith buddies and gun tinkerers had a hand in building a gun for my son's graduation from the US Naval Academy.

The stock was Brazilian Rosewood with lighter colored tropicalwood as the pistol grip and forend cap (gun is not here and I can't remember species). The stock maker finished it buy wiping with denatured alcohol and applying finish as soon as the alcohol evaporated, before the natural oils had time to resurface.

It is a truly beautiful stock with 30 LPI checkering and is not too heavy. It sports a Douglas Premium tapered octagon 30-06 barrel and all markings are engraved in script.

Awesome gift for your son's graduation from Annapolis!!!

Don

merlinron

Posted 21 April 2009 21:18

i've seen rosewood pieces on boats that had no finish on them at all and looked beutiful, even after years of exposure to the elements of sailing. it's naturall oils stay in the wood

May I inquire as to where on the sailing vessel these untreated Brazilian Rosewood pieces of wood were ?.
Odd that Teak is and has been so widely use on vessels all these years ?.

Even it needs to be replenished with oils or varnish in order to prevent weathering !.

I personally know of NO WOOD in the World that will retain a healthy fissure free state

with out some type of finish be it Aromatic ,Oil ,Wax or constant self polishing !.

This is the closest one and the hardest . You couldn't carry the stock so forget it !.

The Hardest Wood in the World is Lignum vitae

The name is Latin for "wood of life", and derives from its medicinal uses: the resin has been used to treat a variety of medical conditions from coughs to arthritis; wood chips can also be used to brew a tea. Other names are palo santo (Spanish for holy wood), greenheart, and ironwood (one of many).

It is a hard, dense and durable wood, the most dense wood traded; it will easily sink in water. On the Janka Scale of Hardness, which measures hardness of woods, lignum vitae ranks highest of the trade woods, with a Janka hardness of 4500 (compared with Hickory at 1820, red oak at 1290, and Yellow Pine at 690). The heartwood is green in color leading to the common name Greenheart. In the shipbuilding, cabinetry, and woodturning crafts the term greenheart refers to the green heartwood of Chlorocardium rodiei.

Various other hardwoods of Australasia (e.g., some species of Acacia and Eucalyptus) may also be called lignum vitae and should not be confused. The best-known is from Bulnesia arborea and Bulnesia sarmientoi (in the same family) and is known as Verawood or Argentine lignum vitae; it is somewhat similar in appearance and working qualities as genuine lignum vitae.




Guaiacum officinale) Dry weight 82-97 lb. per cubic Ft.
Lignum Vitae): Specific Gravity 1.05 - 1.37

Please note the above reference too " Greenheart " Lignum Vitae is NOT Greenheart !!.

Ocotea rodiaei
Family: Lauraceae This is Greenheart !. Demerara Greenheart



A common mistake and all prevalent in the " Exotic Lumber Industry " !.

Purchase by the Latin or Botanical genius name to insure YOU GET the correct species !!!!!.


A list of potential wood species in regards to ones health !.


* Afromosia: irritant/eye & skin, respiratory/great/dust/rare
* Alder: irritant/eye & skin, respiratory
* Angelico: irritant/eye & skin, respiratory/great/dust
* Arborvitae: irritant/respiratory
* Ash: irritant/respiratory
* Baldcypress: sensitizer/respiratory/small/dust/rare
* Balsam fir: sensitizer/eye & skin/small/dust/rare
* Beech: sensitizer/respiratory/great/dust/rare
* Birch: sensitizer/respiratory, nausea/great/dust, wood/rare
* Black locust: irritant/nausea/great/rare
* Blackwood: sensitizer/eye & skin/great/dust, wood/common
* Boxwood: sensitizer/respiratory/small/dust, wood/rare
* Cashew: sensitizer/eye & skin/great/dust, wood/rare
* Chechem: irritant/respiratory, eye & skin/great/dust, wood/unknown
* Cocobolo: irritant/respiratory, eye & skin/great/dust, wood/common
* Dahoma: sensitizer/respiratory/great/dust/common
* Ebony: irritant, sensitizer/respiratory, eye & skin/great/dust, wood/common
* Elm: sensitizer/eye & skin/small/dust/rare
* Fir: irritant/eye & skin/small/rare
* Goncolo alves: sensitizer/eye & skin/small/dust, wood/rare
* Greenheart: sensitizer/respiratory, eye & skin/extreme/dust, wood/common
* Guarea: sensitizer/eye & skin/extreme/dust/rare
* Hemlock: nasal cancer/great/dust/rare
* Ipe: irritant/respiratory, eye & skin
* Iroko: irritant/respiratory, eye & skin/extreme/dust, wood/common
* Katon: irritant/respiratory
* Kingwood: irritant/eye & skin
* Mahogany, American: sensitizer/respiratory, eye & skin/small/dust/rare
* Mahogany, African: sensitizer/respiratory/great/dust/rare
* Makore: irritant/respiratory, eye & skin
* Mansonia: irritant/respiratory, eye & skin/extreme/dust, wood/common
* Manzinilla: irritant/respiratory/dust/rare
* Maple: sensitizer/respiratory/great/dust, wood/rare
* Mimosa: irritant/nasal/extreme/dust, wood/common
* Myrtle: sensitizer/respiratory/great/dust, wood/common
* Oak, red: nasal/great/dust/rare
* Obeche: sensitizer/respiratory, eye & skin/great/dust/common
* Olivewood: sensitizer/respiratory, eye & skin/great/dust, wood/common
* Opepe: sensitizer/respiratory/small/dust/rare
* Orangewood: respiratory/rare
* Padauk: irritant/respiratory, eye & skin, nausea/extreme/dust, wood/common
* Pau ferro: sensitizer/eye & skin/small/dust, wood/rare
* Peroba rose: sensitizer/respiratory/great/dust, wood/common
* Peroba white: sensitizer/respiratory, eye & skin
* Purpleheart: sensitizer/eye & skin, nausea/small/dust, wood/rare
* Quebracho: nasal cancer/great/dust/rare
* Ramin: irritant/respiratory, eye & skin/small/dust/rare
* Redwood: sensitizer/respiratory, nasal cancer/small/dust/rare
* Rosewood(s): irritant, sensitizer/respiratory, eye & skin/extreme/dust, wood/common
* Satinwood: irritant/respiratory, eye & skin/extreme/dust, wood/common
* Sassafras: sensitizer/respiratory, nausea, nasal cancer/small/dust, wood/rare
* Sequoia: irritant/respiratory, nasal cancer/small/dust, wood/rare
* Snakewood: irritant/respiratory/great/dust, wood/rare
* Spruce: sensitizer/respiratory/small/dust, wood/rare
* Stavewood: irritant/respiratory
* Sucupira: irritant/respiratory
* Teak: sensitizer/eye & skin/extreme/dust/common
* Walnut, black: sensitizer/eye & skin/great/leaves & bark/unknown
* Wenge: sensitizer/respiratory, eye & skin/great/dust/common
* Willow: sensitizer/nasal cancer/great/dust/unknown
* W. redcedar: sensitizer/respiratory, nasal cancer/great/dust/common
* Yew, Europe: irritant/eye & skin/great/dust/common
* Zebrawood: sensitizer/eye & skin/great/dust/rare


I suggest getting your information from reputable sources and this is the best one I know of !.

i'm sure you know this,...... after all, your information comes from the best button in the world.....,the the cut and paste button.
about the most common use of teak on a wooden craft or any , for that matter is/was decking. it's used because it will retain it's oils, even though bleadched by sun and weather. it will turn grey but won't dry out for a very long time.
as to the rose, it's commonly used for blocks and/or sheives, as a second to the top choice, lignum. i guess that disqualifies my my statement considering it does get self polished,.... please excuse me for that..... another common use is for belaying pins. as teak does, so does lignum, the surface will bleach and weather to a medium grey, but it will retain it's integrity immediately below the weathered surface because of it's natural oils.
sorry i failed to include you in my post as one who "nailed it". my information comes from experience, not books or the internet. i prefer to relay knowedge that is my own, not someone else's, anyone can read.
judgeing by your post directed at my response, i believe i'm beginneing to think that you are somewhat of an insecure little boy that just has to prove himself all the time. you know who ferd nymphius is, i worked for him till he died. google him if you like.

Find this discussion of the suitability of wood for stocks quite interesting.

Rosewood would make an interesting stock though it would be somewhat heavier than walnut. Got to questioning how much heavier and went to the loft and weighed a number of different rough machined blanks made to the same classic style pattern.

This pattern will usually result in a finished stock in the 28 to 30 ounce range when made from higher grade English Walnut.

While this does not qualify as any sort of statistical sample the results may be somewhat interesting.

Using English Walnut as a base at 30 ounces, a stock of fancy western maple would be approximately 3 - 4 ounces lighter, one of fancy Myrtle 2 - 3 ounces lighter and of feather figure claro about the same or slightly lighter. High contrast zebrawood would be 4 - 5 ounces heavier, rosewood would be about 7 - 8 ounces heavier and bubinga would be between 8 - 10 ounces more than the stock of English walnut.

If used for a rifle with heavier recoil the increased weight might be an advantage. One could also take off a few ounces by holowing the butt stock and routing out the forend.

To put this in perspective, the rosewood stock will finish at about 38 ounces - a Bell & Carlson Medalist and the Ram-Line Syn-Tech composite stock for the same rifle weigh 43+ ounces and the H-S Precision composite weights slightly more. The Six Enterprises and the Butler Creek stocks are in the 28 - 30 ounce range.

The selection of sighting systems and barrels can also result in as great a variation as would result from the difference in the weigth between rosewood and walnut.

Bill

doc 224/375: I'm curios about tung oil....I've been told that some are very allergic to it...the story goes that WW II troops handled the Arisakas and enough deveoloped problems that an investigation ensued. The Arisakas were apparently finished with tung oil...that was the culprit...any thoughts?

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:
doc 224/375: I'm curios about tung oil....I've been told that some are very allergic to it...the story goes that WW II troops handled the Arisakas and enough deveoloped problems that an investigation ensued. The Arisakas were apparently finished with tung oil...that was the culprit...any thoughts?

FWIW, I read somewhere that the Japanese used an oil that was an extract from a plant belonging to the sumac family, as in poison oak and ivy. I think it's called urishi, or something like that. True or not, I have no idea.

Interesting info. on rosewood stocks.

I have a couple of rifles that used rosewood stocks.

This one is an O'Brien 17 Mach IV.

Kevin

merlinron ;

I only posted that for " Everyone's " info .

My experience comes from working with most every wood from around the world for better than 40 years .

My employment over 30 years ago was for several major lumber concerns . My job description was

field superintendent as a purveyor of exotic woods . I actually discovered a few unknown

timber species of commercially viable lumber . I also learned the business not only out of books

but out of the 5 continents I worked on . I also discovered way way back that I didn't know it all !.

As many of the species I actually help fell in the field weren't labeled as toxic or hazards too

ones health !. I've been pay for that stupidity ever since !!!!.

Mr. Duane Wiebe

Tung Oil comes from Euphorbia Family (Euphorbiaceae) also known as candlenut tree


unsaturated plant oils, such as castor oil and linseed oil, take longer to dry and leave an oily residue until they soak into the wood surface. Tung oil 's ability to dry quickly and polymerize into a tough, glossy, waterproof coating has made it especially valuable in paints, varnishes, linoleum, oilcloth and printing inks.

Tung oil is composed primarily of eleostearic (elaeostearic) acid, with smaller amounts of oleic, linoleic and palmitic glycerides. Eleostearic acid is a crystalline unsaturated fatty acid that exists in 2 stereoisomeric forms: An alpha acid occurring as the glycerol ester especially in tung oil, and a beta acid obtained from the alpha acid by irradiation (9, 11, 13-octadecatrienoic acid).

The following is the chemical structure of tung oil eleostearic acid:

CH3(CH2)3CH=CHCH=CHCH=CH(CH2)7COOH

Having a PhD. in Chemistry I'm unaware that any conditions of

dermatitis occurs in Tung Oil per say . There are most always exceptions when dealing with a reactive

substance as no two humans are exactly alike . A mild dermatitis may occur with prolonged contact.


For the general populace it is considered NON REACTIVE !. As it dries very quickly I see no concerns .



As Mr. Merlinron has pointed out one of my best sources is copy & paste I'll simply shorten it for you.

http://www.realmilkpaint.com/msds_tungoil.html

Almost every urethane has some tung oil in it as does Watco Danish Oils or Teak Oil

Most is now Polymerized tung oil . As you very well know most products available commercially also

contain boiled linseed oil as well as many other semi inert ingredients .

I also built my own boat in 1975 using various exotic timers . Mintar 52 OAL

I was trained as a shipwright my vessel was fastened in the traditional method with out metal

Mintar 48 built in 1975 LWL 48 timbers used Ironbark , Spotted Gum ,Teak ,

Green Heart and 6 more species of tropical hardwoods .





These are but a few of my hand samples labeled dated species and origin of timber .

last count I had over 600 . I will simply say that I have helped the Forest Products Lab at Madison WI

on more than a few occasions in my 45 year relationship with them . If I say any more you might be

able to look up my publications . Then you would know who I am , and then the fun's gone !.

Dr. K Carbon strikes again.

I have built several guitars and back and sides are rose wood. pretty hard to get the finish to look good but it can be accomplished. I have tried several types of finishes from true oil to lacquer of diffrent types.
The nitrocelliose type is better than the water based, you will need to use a filler on the rosewood a sanding seale to lock up the oils and finish with lacquer, using light coats and plan to spend about a week on spraying to get about 10 thin coats the idea is to buildup the lacquer. the wait abouta month before finish wet sand with 1000 grit and up to 2000grit polishing compound. it will be so purty all you want to do is look at it.
dave

hivelosity ; You can also do those steps in polyester for a much more durable finish .

For the ultimate durable clear finish I use Type 1 polyester/aliphatic isocyanate urethane .

This product is " NOT " for amateur use !. Positive air mask as well as gloves and special clothing

should MUST be worn while working with those components . A tougher longer lasting clear finish

can't be had !. A very close second is 2 component Floor urethane's, EXCELLENT on wood products

with minimal problems of applications !. Everybody has favorite brands .

Larry ; It must be kept

quote:

If I say any more you might be

able to look up my publications . Then you would know who I am , and then the fun's gone !.

Well, you're not Hoadley, because he is in MA and you in WI.

I have tried some poly type urethenes. forme the guitar laquers give the best finish. with that really deep look
I always end up with orange peal with the urethane
Dave

hivelosity ; Orange peel is a condition not a material related issue .

Example : Automotive finishes may or may not exhibit orange peel depending on a couple of different factors.

Piano's are a prime example of ( I'll Use the color Black ) of an extremely high depth gloss finish .

More times than not they are Polyester rubbed with now commercial polishes used to be ( pumice

rottenstone light cutting oil ) then cleaned wax polished .

I have archived some of my best finishes using urethane, epoxy , polyester, without acrylic fillers !.

Aerospace , Marine and some specialty Automotive products have either 100% urethane or very close to it .

These are most commonly known as plural component clear urethane . Ultra tough finishes !.

Come in either high , medium , low ,satin or even mat gloss factors are obtainable depending on your

preferences .

Self leveling floor cross linking type urethane works real nice for wood and is highly durable .

The ultimate key too a successful finish is PREPARATION then knowing which products to use and why .

I will also add that Temp ,Humidity and carrier solvent is EXTREMELY CRITICAL when a crater free surface

is desired as is a nearly clean room condition . Contamination whether in the material or airborne

is critical in the equation for a near perfect finish .

I also have worked with every type Lacquer finish Nitro cross catalyzing solvent and water borne

shellac, and oils.

Guardsman Mohawk we could talk about this stuff all month . I always say if it works for you

STAY with it !.