I have the opportunity to purchase an ultra-light custom rifle (Rem action) chambered in 308 improved at a very tempting price (less than 1/3 of new) and am thinking about buying it. I was wondering if it would be practical to rechamber it to 30X284???

The rifle does not come with dies, if I have to spend the money on custom dies, I'd certainly rather have a 30x284 rather than a 308 improved!

I'm sure I could neck size with a bushing die, but is there any way around buying a custom sizer if I need to bump the shoulder back???

Thanks!

I'll bet that someone in the classifieds will have a take off barrel for that action in about any caliber yuou want.....and it won't cost a lot to have it fit to your gun.

Get back to a standard caliber and you'll be money ahead. Assume $100 will be needed to attach a take off barrel to your action.

quote:

rechamber it to 30X284???

30 x 284? ......you just re-invented the 7.5 Swiss? The 7.5 Swiss is so simmilar to the 30 x 284 that the difference is not worth talking about. 7.5 Swiss ammo, brass and dies are common. Not as glamorous as a wildcat but same performance. If you did not want to mess with the bolt face you could use .284 brass. You wil have to mess with the rails to get the fat cartridge to feed.

Even better would be to put a 308 barrel on it. The 308 is a fine cartridge. That would be my choice. I would get a Pac-Nor prefit barrel and install it.

Vapodog.....why would I put a cheap takeoff barrel on a high dollar custom rifle???

Scota......I think the 30X284 would clean up the 308 improved chamber......not really interested in the 7.5 swiss.

Maybe I should have mentioned that the rifle has a very expensive cut rifled barrel and there isn't really enough meat in the shank to set it back. Otherwise, I would have it set back and chambered for the standard 308 win.

If it's really a tack driver, maybe you should buy the dies or see about purchasing them from the previous owner. Or if it's just an improved round shoot regular .308 in it and see what it shoots.

quote:

Originally posted by GonHuntin:
I have the opportunity to purchase an ultra-light custom rifle (Rem action) chambered in 308 improved at a very tempting price (less than 1/3 of new) and am thinking about buying it. I was wondering if it would be practical to rechamber it to 30X284???

The rifle does not come with dies, if I have to spend the money on custom dies, I'd certainly rather have a 30x284 rather than a 308 improved!

I'm sure I could neck size with a bushing die, but is there any way around buying a custom sizer if I need to bump the shoulder back???

Thanks!

I have a couple of cats I reload for without custom dies. Try using just the body of a 308 seating die to bump the shoulder back. It works for necking down and moving the shoulder on parent brass.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by GonHuntin:
Vapodog.....why would I put a cheap takeoff barrel on a high dollar custom rifle???

Maybe because you seemed interested in cost...here's the title of the thread

quote:

rechamber a 308 improved or load without $$$$ dies??

well here is my take, I gave up on improved stuff a long time ago.

As far as running a reamer in 30/284, yeah it might cut out fire forming and etc. But ya got to make it feed........284's and rebated cases require some feeding work. I like 284's and have one. So you've changed from a wildcat to a obselete wildcat.......lol.

As far as a new barrel, yeah one can be picked up cheap and might get it screwed on and head spaced cheap..........but might have to be blued and thats 150 bucks. So the good deal may not be as good as it first sounded.

if it was me, I'd unscrew the improved barrel, run a reamer in it and clean up the improved and get it back to std 308 and go own down the road if it was a good deal and the existing barrel was a good shooter.

Yep, I know what the title said......I wrote it! The question was about either rechambering to 30X284 or loading the 308 improved without expensive dies......either would still use the expensive cut rifled barrel that is on the rifle.......replacing it with a cheap factory takeoff barrel......can't see ANY benefit in doing that, but thanks for the suggestion.......

quote:

Originally posted by Gringo Cazador:
if it was me, I'd unscrew the improved barrel, run a reamer in it and clean up the improved and get it back to std 308 and go own down the road if it was a good deal and the existing barrel was a good shooter.

Guessed you missed the part where I wrote: "Maybe I should have mentioned that the rifle has a very expensive cut rifled barrel and there isn't really enough meat in the shank to set it back. Otherwise, I would have it set back and chambered for the standard 308 win."

If the barrel had enough shank to set it back, then rechambering to 308 would be a no brainer......

I have a 260 AI and use a Lee 260 Collet neck sizer. I use a Redding Comp seater that I recut the chamber on. See if you can screw the seater plug on a regular 308 seating die in far enough to seat the bullet without touching the outer shoulder. If so, you are home free.

OR- as someone already recommended, try to get the dies with the rifle.

Saeco used to make dies that they called "Saeco stubby dies". They are the greatest thing for loading wildcats or forming cases that I have ever seen. I found a set in 270 at a gunshow and a set in 6mm on eBay for less than $10 each. They allow you to load anything in that caliber since they do not extend past the neck/shoulder of the case. They work great for setting the shoulder back on almost anything. I use these dies to form/load several wildcats including 6mm Gibbs and 219 Donaldson Wasp

Quote] The rifle does not come with dies, if I have to spend the money on custom dies, I'd certainly rather have a 30x284 rather than a 308 improved!

I'm sure I could neck size with a bushing die, but is there any way around buying a custom sizer if I need to bump the shoulder back???

Thanks![/QUOTE]



First off, if you run a 7.5 Swiss reamer in to clean up the .308 Improved chamber and don't change the bolt face to fit the 7.5 Swiss case rim, you WILL have a .30-284, because you'll have to use .284 brass opened to .308 by either an expander plug or by fire-forming. (For those who want to quibble, that's exactly what I did with a Winchester Model 88. The result was brass that resized perfectly in either 7.5 Swiss or .30/,284 die sets. At least, it chambered easily, shot very accurately, and could be reloaded many times without losing a case.

So, there may be some very minute cartridge spec differences in the two cases so far as their spec drawings go, but in the real world there doesn't seem to be.)
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Personally, I'd leave it as is. Why? Because:

1. You obviously think a lot of your current barrel, so you might as well keep it as is.

2. You can neck size, as you have already observed, with an appropriate .30 bushing.

3. You can set case shoulders back pretty easily (if you ever have to) by getting another bushing, with the proper angle on the bushing entry surface to match the case shoulder. Skip Otto of Grand Junction, Colorado make/sells those bushings quite inexpensively and his work is absolutely superb. He is also a real gentleman and easy to work with.

No, I don't have his address. Just google "Skips Machine" and you'll find it...or go to benchrestcentral.com where he advertises.

I know his shoulder bushings work, as I use them often to set the shoulders of even .30-06 brass back to make 1.520" long .30-BR cases...though I usually use .300 Savage or .308 BR full-length brass.

Hope this helps you some.

quote:

Originally posted by GonHuntin:

quote:

Originally posted by Gringo Cazador:
if it was me, I'd unscrew the improved barrel, run a reamer in it and clean up the improved and get it back to std 308 and go own down the road if it was a good deal and the existing barrel was a good shooter.

Guessed you missed the part where I wrote: "Maybe I should have mentioned that the rifle has a very expensive cut rifled barrel and there isn't really enough meat in the shank to set it back. Otherwise, I would have it set back and chambered for the standard 308 win."

If the barrel had enough shank to set it back, then rechambering to 308 would be a no brainer......

I did miss that part about the short shank, but if you don't haven enough to set it back for a std 308 you probably wouldnt have enought to run a 30/284..........mset be a really short shank.

I'd get a lee collet die, neck size it and shoot it as it is, surely they still make them.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
3. You can set case shoulders back pretty easily (if you ever have to) by getting another bushing, with the proper angle on the bushing entry surface to match the case shloulder. Skip Otto of Grand Junction, Colorado make/sells those qbushings quite inexpensively and his work is absolutely superb. He is also a real gentleman and easy to work with.

I know his shoulder bushings work, as I use them often to set the shoulders of even .30-06 brass back to make 1.520" long .30-BR cases...though I usually use .300 Savage or .308 BR full-length brass.

Hope this helps you some.

Thanks Canuck! That's exactly the type of info I was looking for!!

Gringo.....Thanks.....if I buy the rifle I'll probably try to neck size only.....but I want to look at other possibilities before I lay down the cash! I did get an e-mail back from the 'smith that built the rifle.......he says he can rechamber to 30X284 for $100......I'm waiting to hear back about his thoughts on feeding issues, but quite a few folks on another board I read have rebarreled or rechambered short action Remingtons to 6.5 X 284, or straight 284 without any feeding issues......

To have this rifle built today would cost $3200......I can buy it for less than 1/3 of that, so I can afford to think about rechambering if the 308 improved doesn't float my boat.......but I don't want to spend $125 for 308 improved dies and then wish I had rechambered to 30X284!!

GonHuntin,

Keep it as it is....neck size for now....do what is called a "saved search" on Ebay for "308 Improved" (they send you an e-mail when what you are searching for pops up), and you are good to go for pennies on the dollar.

Plus, if you are ever out in the boondocks you can fire ordinary 308 Winchester ammo if you need to.

Garrett

What make and taper barrel is on the gun now?

quote:

To have this rifle built today would cost $3200......I can buy it for less than 1/3 of that

Less than a third of $3200 is about $900 for a used gun chambered for a round that nobody wants. What part or sum of that rifle is worth $900?

There is no way that I would buy that gun.

For neck sizing you can use one of these dies from Hornady.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=231929

For seating the bullet, I'd try one of floating guide types like that used in the Hornady Dies. You might have to alter the shoulder angle on the guide, but that's a 5 minute job for anyone with a metal lathe.

I think that Savage is right here, without a 2000 dollar stock or a couple of grands worth of engraving, there is no way as far as I can see that a rifle built on a Rem. action is worth any where near 3200 bucks, or for that matter 1/3 of it. How do you know just what the barrel really is, and the most accurate barrels in the world sell for under $300. I would be very leery of anyone that tells me a gun would cost 3200 to duplicate on that action.

If you decide to buy, shoot the gun as it is, and then decide whether you want to change it.

As mentioned above, a .308 Lee Collet Die will do for sizing, and with a bit of care, you should be able to seat with either a .308 seater - or if that fails using the old .30-06 seater you have on the shelf (I assume ). Presto, hardly any investment.

If the gun shoots great as it is, why change?? The .308 Improved may be a bit of an oddball caliber, but the .30-284 is probably not going to do anything the .308 won't.

- mike

A couple of you guys must have missed the fact that this is a custom built ultralight mountain rifle.......we are talking under 5 pounds.

Think $3200 is unrealistic???.......do some checking and see what a custom ultralight costs! The $3200 figure came from the smith that built the rifle, NOT from the person that is selling it......

The action has had extensive machining to lighten it, the bolt has been fluted, the barrel is very lightweight, even the bolt shroud has been machined to be as light as possible.....the stock alone costs over $500.......going ultralight costs money.......this ain't some model 70 in a plastic stock!!

It sounds like you are in the perfect situation to test a theory- regrind an endmill, centerdrill or a reamer and run it into a regular 308 sizer die. I suspect it will cut fine, but if not anneal the die and try again. My hunch is you could probably cut it without annealing but the die will work just fine in the soft state too.

quote:

Originally posted by Mark:
It sounds like you are in the perfect situation to test a theory- regrind an endmill, centerdrill or a reamer and run it into a regular 308 sizer die. I suspect it will cut fine, but if not anneal the die and try again. My hunch is you could probably cut it without annealing but the die will work just fine in the soft state too.

Just to support what Mark told you here, I have recut a lot of commercial dies from various manufacturers. Other than "carbide" dies, I have never encountered any that did not machine easily with regular HSS cutters. Matter of fact, for making my own dies I sometimes just use a spare commercial die for some smaller cartridge as a "die blank" (usually a duplicate which I ended up with somehow), instead of buying a "famous maker" blank die body such as a Newlon (SP?). Costs about 1/3 as much that way.......

Mark is also right in saying that soft unhardened dies work well for reloading too. I often use plain old 1" or 1-1/4" diameter cold-rolled steel "rounds" for die stock when I am making a die for my own use rather than for someone else. None of my "soft" dies seem to have worn out yet.

If the gun seems like such a deal then buy it and get the Hornady dies as linked above. Many times FL sizing is not necessary and in any case it's only $100 or so for a set.

Take the money your saving and buy the dies. The rifle is good and ready to go. You'll have .308 as back up round and be able to reload the newly formed brass.