I used aqua fortis on a curly maple muzzleloader. Turned out okay, really muted the fantastic wood grain. Had similar result making scales for a shop made knife. Used tung oil on that one. I think maybe I didn't sand it past 400 though. Anyway, any tips?

I used to use Magic Maple Stain, which is essentially aqua fortis. Starting in 1969; later however, I thought it to was too aggressive and hard to use. It is activated by heating the wood after you apply the stain.
I, for the past 25 years, use various shades of Laurel Mountain stain; seems to bring out the stripes well enough.
However, as far as sanding; it is not how fine, but how deep; need to get the stripes to stand out from the soft areas.
Top is ash, bottom is maple.

I made a lot of knife handles using maple magic.
I cut mine 50/50 with distilled water.
Many applications; sanding between, with heat; is key to getting that "pop" on curly maple.

Aqua Fortis is Nitric Acid,,just that,,Nitric Acid.

Applied to wood like Maple and then 'blushed ' with heat it will turn the wood brown and sometimes a slight reddish color.

But the acid remains in the wood and can cause rusting to the steel parts as well as damage to brass hardware commony used in M/Loaders/

In the brass, the nitric acid combines with the zinc in the brass and leaches the zinc from the brass.
That zinc is drawn out into the wood fibers surrounding the brass inlay(s) causing a whiteish color halo in the wood around the inlay.
Plus the edges of the brass inlay become copper colored as the zinc is drawn out.
Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc in various %'s.

What is commonly used to stain maple in that manner is Ferric Nitrate.
This is made from Nitric Acid by disolving iron into it untill the reaction stops.
Or you can just buy the stuff already mixed or in crystal form.
It is Ph in the acidic range but by itself it is not an acid.

Used the same way, swabbed on the wood and then blushed with heat to convert the iron content to a color of brown and red.
This is the favored technique for staining maple for the L/Rifle builders. Though many use solvent based stains alone and some along with the Ferric Nitrate tretment..

Unfortunetly,,many still call Ferric Nitrate,,Aqua Fortis which it is not.
Very confusing.
Then there's Aqua Regia also,,something completely different. Nitric and Hydrochloric acid mixed together. Nothing to do with staining wood. But I've seen it mentioned as such. Maybe a typo or a simple mistake. But again confusing.


Home made Ferric Nitrate can cause the acidic problems of using plain Nitric if not enough iron/steel has been disolved into the acid while making it up.
But if done correctly and the reaction has been taken to it's completion, the soln is one that has been used for a very long time to color maple and other hardwoods.

I am no chemist so I cannot address the above comments.
I sand the stock to the stage that I would "whisker". I then stain with an aniline water stain. The difference is I mix the stain powder with denatured alcohol instead of water. Put it on a little heavy and let dry. When you cut back the whiskers and lightly sand the stock it lightens up. If it is to light, stain it again, and if it is too dark, sand it a bit more. Let it sit a few days before applying the finish to assure it is completely dry.

I also use an alcohol based, non grain raising, dye. I mix walnut and mahogany dies to get the color that I desire and put it on after raising the grain. I usually go pretty dark and then sand it back until I get it exactly where I want it. The softer curl will remain darker than the hard areas. Then I finish with tung oil/spar varnish mixture. I understand the acid based treatments are the traditional method of staining but not worth the effort to me if I can get the same, identical colors and look with alcohol dyes.

tea followed by ammonia with steel wool disolved in it, not very practical, dye stain probably works easier

or

burn it.

this is just tung.



walnut just shellac.

quote:

Originally posted by max(hm2):
I am no chemist so I cannot address the above comments.
I sand the stock to the stage that I would "whisker". I then stain with an aniline water stain. The difference is I mix the stain powder with denatured alcohol instead of water. Put it on a little heavy and let dry. When you cut back the whiskers and lightly sand the stock it lightens up. If it is to light, stain it again, and if it is too dark, sand it a bit more. Let it sit a few days before applying the finish to assure it is completely dry.

This ^^. I use Behlen aniline dye.

Cloudis reminde me; I do mix the Laurel mountain stains to get different colors; I feel that the acid stains (no matter what the chemical composition or what we call them) are a relic of the past and the alcohol stains like LM, are the way to go. Which is why I exclusively use them.
They make one called Lancaster Maple, it's reddish, which is good and I mix that a little walnut in that. Possibilities are endless.

I use the Laurel Mtn stains on maple and they do everything I want them to do.
The orig method(s) using ferric nitrate and heat do produce a nice color and yes it is the classic way.
But as long as I'm using electric lights and have the AC on, I guess I can excuse myself from using the old acid based stuff.

I've seen too many rifles finished with it that have had long term issues with rusting and the above mentioned problems.
Usually from homemade ferric nitrate solutions. But some say they used a commercial mix. There are several on the market.
Nothings is guaranteed I guess.

I like the Laurel mtn stain on Walnut too as the first stain. I often use oil based stain over it to add a bit of color tone as I build up a finish depending on what I'm using.

Some of the L/R makers like to use Leather Dye as well. Another 'solvent' stain so it works as well.

These grips are Am Walnut.
But stained with Laurel Mtn Maple stain first.
Then as the finish is applied and sanded in, MinWax oil base stain is applied over the dried finish and sanded coat(s) to add some more color.

I think I used English Chestnut here or something like that.
Of course the oil stain does not soak in,,I don't want it to.
It mearly adds a little color tone to the look. That's what I want.

I do the same on Maple sometimes.
It's kind of the same idea as adding a color tone to the finish itself which you can also do. That was a common practice on LongRifles which were often finished with Shellac and a reddish color added to the finish.

Chromium Dioxide, I think, If we could still get it. Dixie sold it.

Chromic acid.. the orange stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by gwahir:
Chromium Dioxide, I think, If we could still get it. Dixie sold it.

I use a dilute solution of baking soda to neutralize any residual Aqua Fortis.

When much younger and not too savvy, I tried the
suigi" method on a maple stock (This is going over the stock with a Blow torch)

Really brought out the figure, but the stock split right down the middle!

Possibly too high a moisture content, but I vowed to never do a maple stock again..and kept my word.

Chromium Trioxide was a common chemical used to stain maple stocks when building L/R.
It was common to use it in finishing maple furniture as well.

It puts a very nice reddish/brown w/yellow tone color to the wood,,all depends on the particular piece of course.

Some would follow it up with a wash down w/ vinegar to 'neutralize' it.
Don't know if that is/was necessary, but it would lighten the colors up if the staining attempt made the stock too dark.

The stain can be used to get maple so dark it would be trending to Black if you didn't watch what was happening.

All well and good.
But if the stained piece of wood,,gun stock, furniture, whatever happened to be exposed to prolonged natural sunlight, over time (some years usually,,the wood will turn a green tint.

Not a very welcome sight on gun stock or funiture.

Keep the piece from long exposure over and it will generally be fine.

The chemical itself is rather unstable so I'm told by a few I know that had used it.
Likely light exposure lessened or killed the stuff in the bottle while on a shelf sometimes.

Probably very toxic,,but what isn't in this game.
Don't drink stock finishes when you are thirsty and you'll generally be OK

Fume (muratic acid in a pan) it in a tent of clear plastic
so you can gauge the progression of the acid fumes on the maple.

All this 18th and 19th century alchemy is way too much work and drama, for zero gain (yes I have done a lot of it starting in 1966). And yes, it will turn green.
I use alcohol based stains on Maple and walnut; works well.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
All this 18th and 19th century alchemy is way too much work and drama, for zero gain (yes I have done a lot of it starting in 1966). And yes, it will turn green.
I use alcohol based stains on Maple and walnut; works well.

Hopefully people are just restating things they have heard at some point in time. Acid fumes in a tent? Really? The old 'smiths used the nitric acid with iron filings dissolved in it to stain with because they didn't have what we have today and that is alcohol based NGR stains. I've seen the "old time" methods reproduced by amateurs with disastrous results, laughable really. So unless you've experimented extensively with acid stains I'd leave them alone and use what most modern gunmakers use. Just because you used an antique method doesn't mean you did a great job.

Here is a piece of Western Big Leaf Maple in what we call fiddleback figure.
I made this rifle up for my wife 28 years ago, its a 257 Roberts, I replaced the old scope a few years ago with a Leupold VX-2 in 3x9 with the long range recticle

Simply use boiled Linseed oil that is soaked in and wet sanded several times to # 320, allow to sit several weeks, then a nice top coat of Tru-Oil finish.
It takes several years for the linseed oil to Oxidize and get that yellow glow type color

J Wisner

quote:

Originally posted by 2152hq:
Chromium Trioxide was a common chemical used to stain maple stocks when building L/R.
It was common to use it in finishing maple furniture as well.

It puts a very nice reddish/brown w/yellow tone color to the wood,,all depends on the particular piece of course.

Some would follow it up with a wash down w/ vinegar to 'neutralize' it.
Don't know if that is/was necessary, but it would lighten the colors up if the staining attempt made the stock too dark.

The stain can be used to get maple so dark it would be trending to Black if you didn't watch what was happening.

All well and good.
But if the stained piece of wood,,gun stock, furniture, whatever happened to be exposed to prolonged natural sunlight, over time (some years usually,,the wood will turn a green tint.

Not a very welcome sight on gun stock or funiture.

Keep the piece from long exposure over and it will generally be fine.

The chemical itself is rather unstable so I'm told by a few I know that had used it.
Likely light exposure lessened or killed the stuff in the bottle while on a shelf sometimes.

Probably very toxic,,but what isn't in this game.
Don't drink stock finishes when you are thirsty and you'll generally be OK

Yes Chromium trioxide. Like I meant to say! I can verify your comment about the green tint; most unwelcome on my Mk2 martini k hornet. You can't really see it in the picture, but it is there!

I suppose Brownell's sells Chromium Dioxide? I want to try that. In the 80s I bought 600+ brd. ft. of birdseye maple from a mill in Massachusets + it was all they had. I did a lot of rifles but was never really pleased with the finish. The only one left now is my son's in 7X57. I would like to see what that would do. I added a forend + gripcap out of rosewood (great color combo), I suppose that the C.D. would only improve that as well.

Get the old type acid stains from Log Cabin Shop; they carry both the Magic Maple Stain and Aqua Fortis stain, as well as others.
Did you try Laurel Mountain first? It won't rust all your metal or eat brass.
Brownells does not carry chromium triioxide as far as I can find.
It will turn green, and is super toxic; I don't recommend it. As I said, we have better chemicals now.

Chrominum Trioxide turns green because that is color of the chemical when it is 'done for',,it is 'spent' and no longer works.
When the Chrom/trioxide is swabbed on the wood it attacks the wood and burns it in an acidic manner. That produces the coloring that looks so nice.
When the chemical reaction betw the Chrom/Trioxide & wood is done,,the Chrom/Tri turns that green color,,,it's spent.

That color comes to the surface of the wood.
The Green tint you seen on wood stained in this manner. If a finish has been placed over the stained wood,,the green color layer will be trapped under the finish but yet on top of the wood. Still visible.

Any chromium compound is very hazardous to humans,,nervous system damaging stuff. This included.

Dixie and all the old LongRifle gunmaker supply shops used to sell it. But I don't think they do anymore.
You probably can find it in larger quantity jars on Ebay and the like. It's generally not cheap either.

Rosewood may respond to the stuff and color as well,,what color I don't know.
It will end up with the green tint after time just like any other wood that has been stained with it though.


All these old formulas are Ok. They do color wood and as someone already stated, that's what they had at the time. Home brews to work with. Same as stock finishes.
They have lots of negatives when making them up, using them and long term effects on the wood and steel/brass components.

The solvent stains available now are the best available and will color the wood any shade you want right up to jet black.

Longrifle makers , some of them, like to still use the old Ferric Nitrate and some call it Aqua Fortis (straight Nitric Acid) staining on their maple stocks.
"It's the way they were originally done!" they'll tell you. True..
But Then they turn around and install a stainless steel flash-hole liner/insert in their Flintlock guns so they are more reliable.
...sure,,just like the originals were made.

..and yes some high quality English flint guns had platinum flashhole liners,,but it wasn't the normal practice of the trade to install them, not by a long(rifle) shot.

Start with a good blank with lots of figure. Pacific Big Leaf Maple from the back yard, 20 year cure.



Fresh off the duplicator, no sanding, no oils or solvent.





Sorry, no photo of the completed rifle. Rem 40X, 22-250


A blank with some oil rubbed in. Planed, no sanding. "Tiger".



Blanks in the raw.






Tiger, Marlin 336. No stain, clear finish.



1995, where the blanks came from.









The moisture meter is your friend. About as low as it gets here on Washington's Olympic Peninsula.

Nice, but most of us don't have thousands of BF of wood to choose from. So we have to make it work.
I started building long rifles in the 60s, and soon after, the Hawken craze took over. In the early 70s, at Friendship, everyone had one, and many of them were green. It was just the way it was and we accepted it.
I still have bottles of Magic Maple stain; it rusts everything around the bottle. Can't keep it in. Nasty stuff.
I used it by the pint back then.
Not for a few decades now though.

Before Chromium Trioxide is applied, the surface is feathered and lightly sanded as many times as it takes to stop the grain from raising. The solution is then brushed on and will make the wood black; like a forest fire! Diluted vinegar is applied to lighten the color to the point that is desired. NO SANDING PLEASE! Apply tru oil or what ever you like.