For those of you who use a one-piece base on bolt rifles.

Do you epoxy bed the base?

I never have.

I don't either.

I'm not sure if you mean bed the base or glue the base using epoxy. I have always without exception epoxy glued both two piece and one piece bases to the receiver. I only see advantages with this as the epoxy will fill gaps, prevent ingress of dirt and water under the base/s and will take up most of the shear effect from the recoil of the rifle trying to dislodge a base when the scope and rings are in place. I also epoxy the base screws too.

I have mounted many scopes over the years, many for hard use in our bush and Alps and some on semi auto rifles and shotguns for use from culling choppers,and in all this time never ever had a come back with loose bases or screws.

With judicious use of localised heat the screws and bases can be removed and a scrub with a bronze brush will 'wipe' the softened epoxy from the receiver, even those with engraving or stippling.

I'm prone to swap things out far to much to be running glue under a base setup

it says "bed"...

why would you?

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
it says "bed"...

Yes I thought that was likely what you were wanting and I can't see why it is not a viable option although would assume one end of the base would be contoured correctly and could be screwed down tight to allow epoxy at the other end to form to the contour and possible height difference.

Did something similar when mounting a full length Weaver base in the scout position on my Type A Mauser, base contoured exactly for the Mauser front ring and when screwed down tight here the front of the base, convex as it was underneath, sat firmly on the rear ledge of the safari sight. Single screw down through the Weaver base into the rear of the safari sight and glued up with epoxy. For all intents and purposes the base is bedded with epoxy and glued to boot. Never moved in 25+ years.

I would, if needed. I only own 1 rifle with a one-piece base, a Rem 700 police in .308 Win. with a Warne Picatinny base, which conformed to the rifle receiver to start with.

Here is my take on this; if the bridges on the rifle are not true to the base/bases, what do you accomplish by bedding them, how do you ensure they will be true once bedded. To my way of thinking, if the scope was bedded to the rings and allowed to set up in the bedding compound without any stress on it, the outcome would be more favorable.

It depends on how it fits, if it's pinned, and how much recoil it will see.

For example, r700 receivers seem to be finished by hand with a belt sander, so one piece rails seldom fit nice. The last one I did, I could start all the screws and with the front screw snug, the rear had a 0.020" gap. Sure, you can crank all the screws down, but you're bending the rail and receiver. Not ideal, imo.

Also, epoxy can help with the rail sliding. If the rail is not pinned, and the gun will have a lot of recoil, then I'd epoxy the base so it won't slide.

$0.02

.
At the request of customers I have often mounted the scope, rings and bases to the gun. Then pull the rig off and covered the receiver with release agent. I then blob a bunch Marine Tex on the receiver, put on the bases and start the screws in finger tight. I then install the scope and rings on the bases and tighten the rings solid and wrap a few rubber bands around the whole thing and clean it up and allow it to harden. After the stuff sets up I remove the scope and bases, clean up the mess farther, put everything back together, charge them $100 and send them on their merry way. In this way there is absofuckinglutely no stress between any of the parts. Though the theory is good I have never been swayed to do it to one of my own guns. But it boils down to whatever makes your bum hum I guess.

The gentleman who won the Ko2M did his. So do most of the top ten to twenty.

The rationale seems to be that no receiver is perfectly round and identical in diameter all the way from one end to the other. Some thing called production tolerances.

Same with the one-piece base, and unlikely that they were made by the same people who built the receiver.

I would opine that few of you opt not to bed your barreled action to the stock.
I would also opine that few of you opt not to cinch the screws on your rings down fairly snug.
Thirdly, and lastly, I would opine that few of you would shoot a box of bullets that varied .003-.005" in diameter.

One-piece bases that are tapered, the + moa vary in thickness from one end to the other. The taper is continuous, so it cannot fit evenly to a receiver that has no taper.

There are gaps. The epoxy bedding eliminates those gaps.

Pretty simple...

Hey I did it with my toilet installed on the tile floor (with plaster) why not to a scope base.

I see your logic..I will try it with the toilet first.

quote:

Originally posted by richj:
Hey I did it with my toilet installed on the tile floor (with plaster) why not to a scope base.

Dykem high spot blue, air grinder and a 320 stone.

Not for the do-it-yourself guy

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:

There are gaps. The epoxy bedding eliminates those gaps.

Pretty simple...

Granted, there is/will be gaposis. But what does filling the gaps with epoxy accomplish? Added strength/stiffness, a "cushion" between the base and the recv'r, less stress on the base ? All of the above, or?

more surface area

craigster,

what good does bedding a rifle in the stock do?

What this accomplishes is to (using a metal epoxy like Marine Tex) allow for those production tolerance to be eliminated. 100% bedded does not allow the base to warp/flex to conform to the receiver contour.

Careful.....with that toilet bedding.

Leave a small opening somewhere around the perimeter. Ya don't want a failed wax ring seal to cause a seepage UNDER your nice tile.

BTW.....I hate bridge mounts. But that's just me.

Kevin

I have a friend who test mounts one piece mounts and then shims.

He screws the front on and sees if the rear of the mount is touching or floating above the rear bridge.

If touching he then removes the front screws and attaches with the rear screw and checks the front as he did the rear.

He then shims accordingly.

I have made 6-48 inletting guide screws and bedded one and two piece mounts with the scope attached in the past. I wrapped the screws with electric tape until the screws snuggly fit the base holes. You have to mask and dam (clay)as necessary and use enough release agent. I had the bedding material bond to the base and not the receiver.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
craigster,

what good does bedding a rifle in the stock do?

What this accomplishes is to (using a metal epoxy like Marine Tex) allow for those production tolerance to be eliminated. 100% bedded does not allow the base to warp/flex to conform to the receiver contour.

There's nothing to stop the base from flexing if you tighten it before the epoxy is set.

And it you don't tighten it before the epoxy is set it kind of defeats the propose doesn't it?


I think it will work with the toilet though......

I need to call Brian Litz and tell him that those guys wasted their time bedding the base.

I will try and use smaller words.

Bedding the one-piece base to your receiver is the same process as bedding a barreled action to a stock, and will have the same result. Are you following me?

Process is as follows:

1. clean the receiver with brake cleaner or alcohol. Ditto for the base.
2. coat the receiver with release agent. Coat the base screws as well.
3. place a thin layer of epoxy on the underside of the base and line it up on the action. wipe the excess epoxy off as it oozes out the sides and ends of the base. screw the screws in and torque them to specs.

Find something constructive to do for an hour or so.

4. unscrew the screws and lift the base off of the receiver. the epoxy will have spread itself to fill the gaps between the base and receiver.

If this does not make sense to you, get someone with a high school education to explain the concept.

If you have ever bedded a barreled action into a stock successfully, this should make perfect sense to you.

If you haven't it likely won't.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I need to call Brian Litz and tell him that those guys wasted their time bedding the base.

I will try and use smaller words.

Bedding the one-piece base to your receiver is the same process as bedding a barreled action to a stock, and will have the same result. Are you following me?

Process is as follows:

1. clean the receiver with brake cleaner or alcohol. Ditto for the base.
2. coat the receiver with release agent. Coat the base screws as well.
3. place a thin layer of epoxy on the underside of the base and line it up on the action. wipe the excess epoxy off as it oozes out the sides and ends of the base. screw the screws in and torque them to specs.

Find something constructive to do for an hour or so.

4. unscrew the screws and lift the base off of the receiver. the epoxy will have spread itself to fill the gaps between the base and receiver.

If this does not make sense to you, get someone with a high school education to explain the concept.

If you have ever bedded a barreled action into a stock successfully, this should make perfect sense to you.

If you haven't it likely won't.

Hang on a minute that is doing exactly as I said I do with every base on every rifle I have ever mounted bases to, but that is epoxy gluing a base not bedding it as such. If the base is truly level on the receiver and matches the contour closely then torquing the base down and wiping off the excess epoxy that oozes out will be fine, no need to use a release agent, easy enough to get the base off and clean up receiver if wanting to remove the base at a later stage.

If the base is not true to the receiver e.g. high at one or other end or the contour is well off then doing the above will not bed that base to the receiver.

Before I epoxy glue any base I check to see that it fits the receiver properly similar to what airgun1 has posted that his friend does when shimming bases.

Can understand the principle of using release agent when bedding an action to a stock as you will always want to remove the action for cleaning and other adjustments but a scope base should be as permanent as possible after all many popular rifles now have factory permanent bases.

I think this is most beneficial in those cases where the radius on the base is slightly greater than that of the receiver. The epoxy will prevent rocking. Anything which improves fit is never abad idea. Regards, Bill

quote:

Originally posted by npd345:
And it you don't tighten it before the epoxy is set it kind of defeats the propose doesn't it?


I think it will work with the toilet though......

If you tighten the base before the epoxy sets then you are simply filling space. Not removing stress. The tiny space in the uneven surface after the base is tight isn't really hurting anyone. It's the stress caused by the uneven fit during torquing you're fighting. If you only snug the bases first and let the epoxy cure you fill the space that is causing the stress after torque is applied. Though I personally think we are arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. But that's OK too. Angels need their space just like anybody else.

If you want to take it to extreme paranoia, you should pre-instal the scope and then tighten it solidly to the base before the epoxy cures too. Installing the scope will add a whole new level of stress to the rig.

I guess in an ideal situation you would install the whole rig on the gun. Then take it apart and then clamp the bases back on to the scope and rings. Then put some headless screws into the receiver sticking up about 1/10th of an inch. Put on a liberal dollop of glue, set the assembly on the screw shanks and lightly rubber band, or better yet, gravity seat the whole thing until the glue sets up. Then clean it up and replace the headless screws with actual screws and put the whole thingy back together. I would sand blast the bottom of the bases and so the glue sticks tight and put release agent on the receiver.

I think if I was to do this I would not use the release agent and just make the whole thing permanent.

If you had to remove it later you could use heat or extreme cold to get it off.

Also a couple of tips, for what they are worth. Don't clean the metal with alcohol use acetone instead it seems to do a better job; at least in my experience.


So yes I have "glass" bedded gunstocks

you guys are killing me!

I mean that in a good way.

I got the answer why. Just screw one end of the base down. Then see if there is any flex or gap at the front.

The next thing on the list: bolt fluting. I am almost afraid to open this can of worms...

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by npd345:
I think if I was to do this I would not use the release agent and just make the whole thing permanent.

If you had to remove it later you could use heat or extreme cold to get it off.

Also a couple of tips, for what they are worth. Don't clean the metal with alcohol use acetone instead it seems to do a better job; at least in my experience.

Also wipe the excess epoxy off with a cloth with a little white vinegar on it. It works great as long as you do when the epoxy is still soft. I do this when I bed gunstocks and it works great.

So yes I have "glass" bedded gunstocks

OH MY !
I wonder what vinegar might do to bluing ?

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I need to call Brian Litz and tell him that those guys wasted their time bedding the base.

I will try and use smaller words.

Bedding the one-piece base to your receiver is the same process as bedding a barreled action to a stock, and will have the same result. Are you following me?

Process is as follows:

1. clean the receiver with brake cleaner or alcohol. Ditto for the base.
2. coat the receiver with release agent. Coat the base screws as well.
3. place a thin layer of epoxy on the underside of the base and line it up on the action. wipe the excess epoxy off as it oozes out the sides and ends of the base. screw the screws in and torque them to specs.

Find something constructive to do for an hour or so.

4. unscrew the screws and lift the base off of the receiver. the epoxy will have spread itself to fill the gaps between the base and receiver.

If this does not make sense to you, get someone with a high school education to explain the concept.

If you have ever bedded a barreled action into a stock successfully, this should make perfect sense to you.

If you haven't it likely won't.

Gluing the bases to the receiver is nothing like bedding the action, which actually bottoms out on something other than the surface directly beneath the epoxy.

Your method really makes little sense because any "gap" you see could be in the base itself and tightening it down would straighten it out.

The fact that a few competition shooters did it doesn't prove it works better. It just shows they think it does, just like some think you have to "break in" a barrel.

I hope none of my words were too big for you.

quote:

One-piece bases that are tapered, the + moa vary in thickness from one end to the other. The taper is continuous, so it cannot fit evenly to a receiver that has no taper.

Of course it can fit since all the taper can be on one side of the base while the other side can be perfectly shaped to fit the receiver.

You should have stopped talking sooner.

Rod,
you are correct! I have only used vinegar on un-blued guns that I am stocking. I have not used it on anything that has been blued!!

Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I have removed the reference to vinegar from my original post.

Thanks again

Shane

quote:

Originally posted by speerchucker30x378:

quote:

Originally posted by npd345:
I think if I was to do this I would not use the release agent and just make the whole thing permanent.

If you had to remove it later you could use heat or extreme cold to get it off.

Also a couple of tips, for what they are worth. Don't clean the metal with alcohol use acetone instead it seems to do a better job; at least in my experience.

Also wipe the excess epoxy off with a cloth with a little white vinegar on it. It works great as long as you do when the epoxy is still soft. I do this when I bed gunstocks and it works great.

So yes I have "glass" bedded gunstocks

OH MY !
I wonder what vinegar might do to bluing ?

I like to fit all bases, then glass the screws in..If I want to take the base off I heat the screw heads with a kitchen torch ( cooks use them to melt sugar, and you can buy one at any cooking store)and unscrew them. glass melts pretty easy and the screws come right out..let the holes set up and run a tap in them to clean out the glass..I do this on big recoiling guns and I use 8-40s as opposed to 6-48s on most of my bases...Glassing metal to metal doesn't do much at all, shear strength of glass isn't much. a glassed base will come off easy with a tap from a brass hammer on one end to shear it off, after the screws are out btw...