I have been given the job of trying to restore an 1890 stye cane gun in .22 caliber. Most of the firing pieces are there.Has a folding trigger and striker for ignition my problem is some of the parts are missing.
If anyone had some drawings or photographs of a working model.

Stop! Make sure it is registered with ATF/Dept of Treasury first. Cane guns are" Any Other Weapons" like wallet guns and pen guns, and must be registered ($5).
So, before you fix it, make sure it is legal.

True for pre-1898 gun as well?

Yes; because it fires commercially available ammo. If it was a muzzle loader, or an obscure rim fire, then no.
You can't mix rules; for example, you can't take a pre 98 cartridge firing rifle and cut the barrel down to 14 inches; whilst it is still a pre 1898 rifle, it is now in another category: short barreled rifle.
Please do not take anything I say as true; do your research first. In case you get in trouble, you didn't get it from me.

You probably won't find much in the way of information or schematics on cane, umbrella, whisky flask, belt buckle, cigarette case, pen or ring guns. I knew a fellow in Europe that collected and researched the hell out of them. These sorts of weapons in Europe were always regarded with a bit of disapproval. While legal for a time, they were always regarded as ungentlemanly, unladylike or a cowardly means of self defense. Whilst a handgun was a widely recognized device, used for implying threat, hide guns were more of the devils hand and were something that was more commonly associated with assassins, highwaymen and murders. To put it into American terms. I guess it was just plain old (UNSPORTING) to kill a bad guy without first warning him of his impending demise. Because of their sinister existence and nature they were seldom manufactured by reputable gunmakers. Like other black arts weapons, they were usually made by unrecognized gunsmiths or gunmakers who were looking simply for ways to pay the bills on a one off basis. There were of course some made by cheap manufacturers as more of a novelty item, but they were often just made in low number runs and quickly discontinued and spare parts and schematics never followed them. It should also be noted that these items never did become popular in America. Because they were usually single shot and slow to reload, Americans looked at them as simply a novelty. When Americans kill some one, they want to kill the hell out of them, and their friends too. They had no interest in that pussy, James Bond crap. LOL

Thanks for the concern, I am vetted and work under licence for these types of registered weapons. They are for museum and private collections normally. I have just never came across one of these before.

It is the cane gun that has to the the license. Even a private collector has to have it registered. Any license the gunsmith has is not enough.
If it were me, I would immediately delete this whole thread.

Well its all for naught, after getting it disassembled discovered its a breech loading percussion gun (black powder). It uses a tiny percussion cap looks to be about 1/8 diameter. A 22 cartridge falls almost through the bore. It may have been made to hunt mice, grasshoppers or cockroaches. I suspect that shooting a person would tend to just annoy them and make the problem worse.

Interesting story,
Back in the late 70's one of my USAF co workers had a couple of these he brought in from another country. He was told they were illegal and called ATF to confirm they were. ATF agent told him as long as he brought them in to their office he would be OK as he initiated the inquiry.
He cut both of the cane guns up with a hacksaw before going to ATF, Man on man were the agents pissed he cut them up. Kind of showed what the agents had in mind for them.

quote:

Originally posted by Rolland:
Well its all for naught, after getting it disassembled discovered its a breech loading percussion gun (black powder). It uses a tiny percussion cap looks to be about 1/8 diameter. A 22 cartridge falls almost through the bore. It may have been made to hunt mice, grasshoppers or cockroaches. I suspect that shooting a person would tend to just annoy them and make the problem worse.

No, it was probably marketed as a self defense gun. The same mentality that gave us the Baby Browning. I have read stories of people actually being shot in the head with those little guns and the 25 caliber slug not even penetrating the skull. When Browning invented it he probably never even realized the limitations of it and all he knew was that he had an idea for a small caliber gun that would fit in a mans vest pocket or a woman's purse. He probably never even had a specific purpose in mind for it and the manufacture simply marketed it as a self defense gun. Probably if you could bring Browning back to life and show him what 100 years of history had shown us, he would have smiled and said:

"Well, it just never occurred to me that people would use it to shoot other people in the head. I guess if I had, I might have realized that those little slugs wouldn't go through a human skull. I guess I should have designed it with a 20 grain heavier bullet? Can we just blame the guys at Colt, or do I have to take this one?"

Well that's what I would have said, if I was Browning. lol

Remember, that 100 years ago, you didn't want to get shot with anything, whether it penetrated the vitals or not; with no antibiotics, and even germ theory of disease was a new concept, any wound would get infected and you would die a slow and painful death of blood poisoning. Which is why all the very small and weak cartridges and calibers were widely used.

There is also the fact that 100 years ago, semi auto handgun design was in it's infancy and modern steels were not available to make small, light, auto loading guns that would handle high intensity cartridges. On top of that, no one had even thought of adapting the large caliber stuff used in the American west to an auto loader. The Colt 1911 was really the first adaptation of that and only because of a special order by the American military who were a bit perplexed to find that crazy Filipinos, hopped up on drugs were sort of impervious to 38/9mm caliber slugs until they literally weighed them down with them a bit. At nearly 500 Ft Lbs the 45 ACP worked REALLY WELL, but created a rather unsightly bulge in your vest while standing in line at the Royal Opera House in London. Since the 1911, the steel has gotten a lot better and because of that the calibers have shrunk back down to 9mm and the velocities have gone way up to equal the 500 Ft Lbs of stopping power of the old Colt 45. The guns have also gotten smaller again too so that people don't point and whisper behind your back when you're in church.

But, like you really care. he he

quote:

I have read stories of people actually being shot in the head with those little guns and the 25 caliber slug not even penetrating the skull

I have actual investigated crime where people died from being shot with them.

Not stories you do not want to be shot with a 22rf or a 25acp.

A good solid hit with any one of them could very well kill you or cause you to have mayor surgery to repair the damage.

They are not toys they are deadly and dangerous

Anybody that says others wise hasn't seen the damage they can do to a human body.

You guys can poo poo them all you want but I seen the deadly aftermath of people getting shot by them.

For a year or so, because of the environment I was in, my daily carry piece was a Walther TPH with CCI Stingers. Fortunately, the only real threat I encountered during that trip was a very large angry mutt. Two shots and he was dead.

Moral: Don't threaten a man with a tiny pistol. He may know how to use it.

Or a knife.

I had a quote marshal arts expert tell me he could take my pocket knife away from me and stick where the sun doesn't shine.

I just smiled and politely asked him how many holes he wanted in his lungs.

His response was to shake his head and walk away.

The same goes for any body poo pooing mouse guns.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Remember, that 100 years ago, you didn't want to get shot with anything, whether it penetrated the vitals or not; with no antibiotics, and even germ theory of disease was a new concept, any wound would get infected and you would die a slow and painful death of blood poisoning. Which is why all the very small and weak cartridges and calibers were widely used.

That is quite an interesting theory you have. Shoot someone then wait a few days for them to die due to a massive infection. Still gives the opponent plenty of time to "counter" and inflict some serious wounds. Guess we could call your theory the "komodo dragon" concept.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Remember, that 100 years ago, you didn't want to get shot with anything, whether it penetrated the vitals or not; with no antibiotics, and even germ theory of disease was a new concept, any wound would get infected and you would die a slow and painful death of blood poisoning. Which is why all the very small and weak cartridges and calibers were widely used.

That is quite an interesting theory you have. Shoot someone then wait a few days for them to die due to a massive infection. Still gives the opponent plenty of time to "counter" and inflict some serious wounds. Guess we could call your theory the "komodo dragon" concept.

Tom doesn't know it, but he was actually captured by the Russians during the cold war, trained as a sleeper agent Ninja, Spetsnaz, assassin. Highly trained in torture and espionage and brain washed to forget it until the needed time. Some of it does leak out from time to time though.

His kids and dog are pretty freaky and paranoid !

These are the wrong forums for this. Please forgive me if I am not supposed to post a link to another forum here but Tom Bower's www.subguns.com is where you will find all the CIII knowledge both for paperwork to keep it legal and restoring an antique.

quote:

Originally posted by viperidae:
These are the wrong forums for this. Please forgive me if I am not supposed to post a link to another forum here but Tom Bower's www.subguns.com is where you will find all the CIII knowledge both for paperwork to keep it legal and restoring an antique.

We have no restrictions regarding links to other forums.

Please link anything you think is going to be of benefit to our members.

In fact, as far as I am concerned, the more hunting and shooting sites we have access to the better.

Snow, let me elucidate the reality, (it's not a theory, it was real) of small and weak calibers in the 19th, and early 20th, century.
Same reason you tried to avoid sticking your dick into women of ill repute; NO ANTIBIOTICS.
It is certainly not that the assailant would have to wait a few days to die from gangrene. He knew that would happen; therein lies the deterrent. It is the fact that everyone was afraid of being shot (or poked) with anything; that was the deterrent. Since any wound, no matter how superficial, could easily result in sepsis, and a slow painful death, then everyone wanted to avoid that at all costs, including backing off from even a 31 caliber Colt 1841.
Only when the attacker is not afraid of suffering or dying do you need a large caliber; study the Moro Insurgents in the Philippines and the .45 caliber.
Nowadays, modern medicine will fix most any wound so no one is afraid any more.