I'm sure this must have been discussed before but I can't seem to find the reference.

Are these Drill Practice rifles?

Are these actions unsafe for builds?

Thanks.

The DP rifles are Drill Practice rifles, and on the ones I have seen, there is nothing wrong with the actions. However, since they were deactivated by drilling and welding a pin in the chamber, look to see if the weld affects the action front receiver ring.

Thanks. Kind of hoping for that answer. The receiver rings look great. No sign of heat transfer but will Rc them to make sure.

Thanks again,

DP rifles in the British Army were never "de-activated" by driiling or wleding or cutting off of bolt lugs and etc. Or shortening firing pins.

We always referred to DP as "drill purposes" not "drill practice". Here's why.You'll see not only DP marked rifles but DP marked machine guns.

So the purpose of this "drill" is not in fact arms drill but reloading drills and particularly with machine guns striping drill and stoppage clearing drills.

So usually on a DP rifle the "issues' that have made it DP can either be excessive headspace or a bore that fails the gauge test.

Or it can merely be that the rifle is sighted for .303 ammunition other than Mk VII ball.

DP marked machine guns will again have barrels that fail the gauge test and other parts that also are no longer suitable for firing live ammunition either ball or blank. Such as too short firing pins. Or in a machine gun worn action parts.

Plus it is better to "knock about" a dedicated weapon for stoppage clearing practice than to "knock about" one that is for actual use. Especially the stress put on the rifle's extractor and extractor spring by continual extraction of bulleted drill rounds.

There is a rare made for Cadet use L59 designated version of the SMLE and that has parts of the chamber cut out and the barrel plugged etc. It is also marked as DP but as I said it is not usual that British Army DP guns have any parts cut, altered or plugged.

Would I fire one? Yes but only after having a gunsmith examine it to check bore wear, headspace and its lock-up on the bolt lugs and the surfaces those bolt lugs bear up on. Or if the action has stretched.

Are they unsafe for builds? Not necessarily so, no. But unless they have been marked DP because they are sighted for other than Mk VII ball there will possibly be some parts that are no longer within specification. Such as the threads on the receiver somehow being over stressed or worn.

So a "DP" rifle may have an "in spec" receiver but an out of spec barrel or an out of spec bolt...or vice versa in that the receiver may be out of spec but the bolthead (these are Enfields remember) in spec.

And maybe not have headspace issues as such but may still be fired but in doing so leaving stretched cases or bulged cases.

That would (if the British Army used such terms for such things) have failed a "No Go" or "Field" Gauge test.

Hope it helps.

Thank you. I know if I hang around this forum long enough I always learn something. Interestingly, I was watching a program today on the BREN and what did I spot marked on the top of the receiver? A very large "DP." Now the very questions that raised are answered.

I have a DP stamped P14 receiver, I have wondered if it would be safe to rebarrel.

American drill rifle receivers cannot be assumed to be safe to reuse. The barrel was often welded to the receiver and sometimes the bolt was welded. Lots of M1903A3 drill rifles came out of the CMP and one of these ended up in the hands of a friend. The receiver looked great, no evidence of tack welds on the receiver face, but there had been. Who ever demilled the thing heated the receiver to the point it lost its heat treatment. My friend had rebarreled the thing and found as he shot, the headspace grew! He put in a bolt that lessened the headspace but it continued to grow. He concluded that the receiver had been annealed during the weld process. I examined the receiver and I saw nothing that indicated heat or overheating.

I know nothing about the British DP stocks. I do remember in high school that we had to dewat all of our drill rifles. 1903A3s with the firing pins removed. New directive and we had to disassemble each one, weld the firing pin hole in the bolt, drive a steel plug into the chamber, weld a steel pin in the muzzle and tack weld the barrel to the receiver. We had 80 of those rifles. Such a waste.

There is noting wrong with DP marked P-14s. I bought six "DP" P-14s from Paragon about 1990. The barrels had a pin through the chamber. The stock was mauled in the pin area. All six rifles were in good condition, except for the chamber. I used them all to build sporters. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the actions. My only regret was not waiting for replacement barrels. All of the rifles could have been re-barreled and the stocks repaired. I seem to remember a Winchester in the bunch, I wish I had re-activated it. They were about $20 at the time. Wish I had bought a hundred of them. A- Square and Century used P-14s to build on. I would bet a fair sum that they were using "DP" actions when they could.

quote:

Originally posted by Scota4570:
There is noting wrong with DP marked P-14s. I bought six "DP" P-14s from Paragon about 1990. The barrels had a pin through the chamber. The stock was mauled in the pin area. All six rifles were in good condition, except for the chamber. I used them all to build sporters. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the actions. My only regret was not waiting for replacement barrels. All of the rifles could have been re-barreled and the stocks repaired. I seem to remember a Winchester in the bunch, I wish I had re-activated it. They were about $20 at the time. Wish I had bought a hundred of them. A- Square and Century used P-14s to build on. I would bet a fair sum that they were using "DP" actions when they could.

I have personally seen 2 or 3 A-Square rifles where the "DP" stamp was polished off by just barely visible.

quote:

Would I fire one? Yes but only after having a gunsmith examine it to check bore wear, headspace and its lock-up on the bolt lugs and the surfaces those bolt lugs bear up on. Or if the action has stretched.

You would have a gun smith examine it? I have as many DP P14 rifle barrels that were drilled and never pinned. Worn barrels or excessive length of the chamber in the barrel? I have no fewer than 15 DP barrels that have been removed from P14s, not one of the barrels show evidence of ever having been fired.

Understanding the 303 chamber: The 303 case has a rim, the rim was designed to hold the case to the rear, whatever happened in front of the rim was of little concern, the purpose of the case body was to fill/seal the chamber.

P.O. Ackely was the best thing that ever happened to a case with a long tapper and the hint of a shoulder.

F. Guffey

quote:

Or if the action has stretched.

If a smith did not know the length of the chamber before measuring how will the smith determine if the receiver 'stretched'. There was a smith in the old days that was accused of stretching receivers. He was not sensivitive.

Some rifles built in the old days could be tracked for stretch? and bolt set back, problem, no one figured it out.

F. Guffey

Can't say I know a terrible lot about the P14 chambers. If they were like the SMLE chambers they had some room ahead of the shoulder. Of course, as you pointed out, the .303 head spaces on the rim not the shoulder.

quote:

Originally posted by F. Guffey:

quote:

Or if the action has stretched.

If a smith did not know the length of the chamber before measuring how will the smith determine if the receiver 'stretched'. There was a smith in the old days that was accused of stretching receivers. He was not sensivitive.

Some rifles built in the old days could be tracked for stretch? and bolt set back, problem, no one figured it out.

F. Guffey

These action would never "stretch" from a 303 cartridge. We are not talking about SMLEs. The P14 is among the largest bolt actions. They are used for the largest cartridges. The Chambers and bore are irrelevant on the DPs. The chamber has been destroyed in the DP process.