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required reading for anyone looking for "best barrel," etc
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Often folks with a lesser degree of experience in any given field look to buy skill by endlessly searching for the "best" barrel, action, gunmaker, bullet, scope, etc., etc. There is no "best" anything in this world, as "best" is very subjective and impossible to definitively declare.

This is true for all fields, not just guns and shooting. What is "best" for one person may be very bad for the next. Cars, cameras, watches, telescopes, writers, and so on cannot accurately and honestly be declared as the "best."

The more time and money someone spends chasing the ever-ellusive "best," the less time and money they have to practice in their preferred field and medium. The human brain is the limiting factor in just about any equation. The more brain effort expended looking to buy skill, the less brain power one has available to better understand how to improve their skill.

Pick any of the popular "name brands" in any field and then work on your ability to wring the last drop of performance out of it. Find the "experts" in your chosen field and figure out how they got where they are today. Learn to ask good questions that get to the heart of their rise to the upper eschelon.

One thing I can promise you: they did not get to the top of their field by spending a small fortune searching for a silver bullet that will propel them to the top of the pack just by giving a vendor their Visa number.

Back in the late '80's and early '90's I used to shoot a lot of IPSC, steel, and bowling pins. This was in South Louisiana, and a guy named "Jerry Mickulek" shot with us the majority of the practice sessions and matches. At the time, he just an anonymous guy who was on a maintenance crew in a plant. But the first time I saw him shoot his S&W M27, I intantly knew that I was truly in thr presence of greatness. He shot a bone stock revolver, with the only mods being an action job an reshaped factory grips, both of which he did himself. He moved to the top of the international field by using what was between his ears, not by trying to buy his way into the next level of performance. And on top of it all, he was just an all around good and humble guy who was a pleasure to be around.

Why write all of this on this forum? Well, that is an easy one for me to answer: I want ERVERYONE to get more enjoyment out of shooting and owning custom guns. Spending time and money on learning how to do things better is infinitely more productive than spending money on new equipment, yet using it with the same poor practices and knowledge that limited us with our old equipment.

Hope everyone has more fun, prettier rifles, and shoots smaller groups! If that isn't something to share an adult beverage over, then I don't know what is!!! beer

required reading article for those looking for the "best"
 
Posts: 2509 | Location: Kisatchie National Forest, LA | Registered: 20 October 2004Reply With Quote
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Picture of ramrod340
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I couldn't agree more. As long as the item can do the job spend the time and extra $$ on practice. Most can provide far more than we can use. Years ago I would go round and round with my son. He kept wanting to spend his $$ on the latest new higher priced skate board. Thinking that would instantly make him as good as the ones that had practiced years vs. his weeks. So many of us keep looking for that magic shortcut for experience and practice.


As usual just my $.02
Paul K
 
Posts: 12881 | Location: Mexico, MO | Registered: 02 April 2001Reply With Quote
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The best is the enemy of the good as the Chinese sage wrote.

As I have gained experience I have more often chosen the good enough and looked for balance in the outcome. Wink

jim


if you're too busy to hunt,you're too busy.
 
Posts: 4166 | Location: San Diego, CA USA | Registered: 14 November 2001Reply With Quote
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Picture of Alberta Canuck
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Marc, I absolutely 100% agree with you. There is no way to buy competency in shooting or any other field.

Guys keep asking me at the range to suggest loads/equipment/etc. to improve their shooting. I keep telling them that the best thing they can get to improve their shooting is called "rounds down range". Amazing how few are even polite once that is said...they don't want to hear that competency is actually the product of their own work.

Same goes for hunting, in my experience. The vast majority apparently would rather sit in a tower than actually work at learning the habits of the game, how to track, how to stalk, that sort of thing.

The game is apparently no longer "hunting", but "long range shooting". What most do not seem to want to understand is that if one can hunt, he doesn't have to long range shoot. Perfect examples...my two wives . The first learned to skillfully hunt and shoot...had no trouble getting her annual mule deer with a Winchester Model 73 carbine in .44-40. My second wife also learned to truly hunt and shoot. She only hunted "Pacific Blacktails", but she got them with a Remington Model 25 pump in .32-20...and never had one that she shot at get away.

Nor, more importantly, do many want to hear that the fun is learning how to hunt the game sought, so even if no game is killed, a person can enjoy the contest which is the hunt itself.

Well, it's obvious I've let some of my pet peeves seep out here, so will back off before my crucifixion is complete.

Anyway, I really REALLY concur with your post.

Best wishes to all, AC

P.S. - Am not tarring all the AR members with this brush. Please don't think I am trying to make you wear this shoe, if it really doesn't fit you.
 
Posts: 9685 | Location: Cave Creek 85331, USA | Registered: 17 August 2001Reply With Quote
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I have found the same responses from folks who ask me about different things they can do to make their rifle more accurate. I always tell them to buy a set of wind flags, get a better rest, talk to people who can shoot better than you, then put in all the trigger time you htink you need. Then triple and quadrouple the trigger time. That formula always produces the desired results, but the reults I get from the people asking the question is usually not to polite.

Did you read the article I linked to in my first post? It was written by a photographer, but applies to evrything. Human behavior and psyche are what the article is centered around. But people on photography boards always get mad at him because he can not tell them a magic bullet they can buy instantly be a better photographer.
 
Posts: 2509 | Location: Kisatchie National Forest, LA | Registered: 20 October 2004Reply With Quote
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Hi again, Marc -

No, I didn't bother to read that article, not because I thought anything negative about it, but because I hunt, shoot, fish, compete, etc., to get away from that sort of thing. My wife is a psychologist by profession, and I have senior management experience in my past which includes management of an 1,100-bed psychiatric hospital. So, I think in my case, he might be preaching to the choir.

I know this just sounds like resistance to change/new things, but one of the things I have noted over my years is that as the electronic age comes upon us, its most onerous feature appears to be that people lose their ability to defer gratification.

That is, they want what they want NOW. They seem to feel that way more and more intensely as the speed and availability of electronic communications devices increases.

They don't want to have to learn to research, they don't want to have to reason through a problem, they don't want to have to practice.

Too bad, because as many of their wishes ARE fulfilled, they lose the satisfaction of having done those things themselves, using their own virtues, such as stick-to-it-iveness (SP?), and their own self-image suffers.

Deep inside they still wonder if they could have actually done "that", and often come to believe they couldn't, when in actual fact they might have done it better than anyone else had they only tried hard enough and long enough.
 
Posts: 9685 | Location: Cave Creek 85331, USA | Registered: 17 August 2001Reply With Quote
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Marc,
I agree with you when you are talking about hunting rifles. When accuracy is the primary objective as in bench rest shooting, the guys who know what they are doing go to a very small number of barrel makers, and they don't fuss around with it and have to ask 20 people what to do. They do spend some big bucks and then use them to the best of their ability.

In hunting, too much effort is put into obtaining a moa gun. The shooter spends most of his time at a bench instead of trying to simulate shooting conditions and that is where their skills are developed, not at a rifle ranges sitting in a chair.


Chic Worthing
"Life is Too Short To Hunt With An Ugly Gun"
http://webpages.charter.net/cworthing/
 
Posts: 4917 | Location: Wenatchee, WA, USA | Registered: 17 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Hello Folks

I read the photography article and couldn't agree more, when I was younger with less money I won many many .22 hunter style matches with a rifle made in 1922 by Vickers, and stocked with a lump of wood from the bush, this against the best money could buy. This rifle was rough, carved to fit and quite accurate - the difference was that I shot it a lot and wasn't afraid to adjust the stock with bog and a rasp, then shoot it a lot more.

One further example, I am building a rifle, it will have a Walther Lothar barrel. There are much better quality barrels to be had I am sure from the endless discussion one sees on the board. The point being that it is available at a modest price in the exact contour to meet my requirements as to balance etc. The saving I make on the barrel is invested in a much higher quality blank, not in fancy grain but perfect flow, and the right density. The overall end result will be superior in every way to that I would have obtained by just "buying the best" barrel as ordained by fashion and opinion.

I feel sad for many of the folks (the followers of fashion) who post on this list because they seem to think that spending money will get them a "bespoke" rifle, and it may, but they could have so much more by adopting less of the "order it" mentality and more of the "working with the artist(s)" style to get something that is finely balanced, fitted to their particular style of hunting etc. For example, I think there is a huge difference in a rifle designed to hunt where fast off-hand shots are the norm, as compared with an open country style where more deliberate prone and sitting shots are frequent. Another example is the obsessive pursuit of light weight in rifles. If one looks through a book like SDH's Custom Rifles in Black and White, the different treatments and solutions leap out after some study.

There is both more pleasure and greater utility to be gained by considering ones needs carefully, and seeking to meet them at an level relevant to ones means, than "following fashion". If one looks at the various rifles of two posters here such as ForrestB and Weagle (possibly a bit unfair on Weagle, his means are not clear from his posts in the way that ForrestB's are, but he seems to make pretty modest investments in his rifles ) , it is easy to see that they both have good taste, and know how to work to achieve a rifle that will work for them. Each will spend quite different sums of money, and in finish terms the quality will be different at first. However I bet that if both rifles were somehow used so hard for ten years or so that they "looked" the same when placed on a rack, that a knowledgeable person picking them up would be hard placed to chose between them. They would also stand out from the majority of the other rifles on the rack due to the obvious care taken to obtain perfect functioning and balance, good fit and general utility. They would both in my opinion be genuine "custom rifles" - vastly superior to much of what we see proposed here.

Cheers - Foster
 
Posts: 605 | Location: Southland, New Zealand | Registered: 11 February 2005Reply With Quote
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Marc,
I can well understand when you say there is no best this and that when applied to guns and hunting arms but the premise that there is no 'BEST' I can't agree with. The very definition of the word is 'excelling all others' and even the second definition is'offering or producing the greatest advantage,utility or satisfaction'. This would seem to say there really is a best and you should of course strive for it. To be a better shot or hunter does not depend as much on equipment as it does on personal skill but this in no way means you cannot want for the 'BEST' in equipment to do this job. One of the oldest sayings in drag racing is 'cubic dollars beats cubic inches every time'. This to me means there ARE some things you can buy. Your problem is discerning what those thing are but in no way means you don't want the 'BEST'. Given the choice in the meat market I would select the meat labeled 'BEST' everytime if I could afford it. You gave Jerry Miculek as an example, but we are really talking about 2 different things, his is a physical skill that he developed but was born with and will only get better as he uses better equipment. No amount of practice will ever give me this skill but I can better the skill I do have by using better equipment. When I graduated from Gunsmith school I decided to go on to college and learn another skill to make a living with as I would never build truly great rifles such as others on this forum, yourself included, do. What we are talking about is creative talent as is Jerry Miculek's physical skill and you have it or you don't. I DID read the article on photography as that is my other hobby. I once wanted to be a professional photographer and went so far as to prepare to use my GI benefits to enter Brooks Institute to further this aim. In the interim I attended a seminar in Yosemite Park given by one of the foremost Photographers in the US and after that experience I realized I did not have the inherent visualization skills to be good at that either.This in no way means I don't still enjoy building rifles and taking pictures,it does mean that I have to have take advantage of every piece of equipment and tool to acheive some degree of satisfaction. A good photographer can of course make a great photograph with a box Brownie because good photography is more biased to composition than any other single aspect. A great photographer can visualize this and then capture it on film, but no matter how great he is with this visualization if he does not have fine equipment the resulting photograph may well be of poor quality. Your article makes an example of Ansel Adams and how he visualized his pictures then proceeded to 'create' them but one of his most famous pictures of a moonrise over a town in New Mexico was a happenstance of being in the right place at the right time and realizing it. He basically only used black&white and did his best work in the darkroom. He also shot with only large format cameras which I can assure you had excellant lenses. I can also assure you that photographers such as Jack Dykinga,Eliot Porter and others of this caliber use the 'BEST' equipment available today. The best golfers of today always use the cutting edge clubs and balls as do tennis players and any other person who competes and uses equipment. This does not in any way imply that equipment takes the place of skill but also realizes that enhanced equipment can most times make for better results even in the hands of people not who cannot use it to its maximum. If we use your premise then we need NO custom gunsmiths as all shooting and hunting skills can be learned by application so all we need are factory arms and repair people. My contention is that it is far more complex than that and man will ALWAYS want the 'BEST' if there is a best available to him. While 'BEST' may vary as to what it is by every mans definition the fact that it exists in every man's mind will not change.


SCI Life Member
NRA Patron Life Member
DRSS
 
Posts: 2786 | Location: Green Valley,Az | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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There may be no one best thing that can perfectly cover for all situations, but there certainly are better choices that can be had for a certain mix of circumstances.
Granted,there is no great use putting a Stradivarius violin in the hands of someone who cannot play,but I could be wrong, he may have a hidden talent to build such,and holding one may inspire him to explore or discover a skill or passion.
There are folk who consistently get 1/2" with factory rifles,then those with full custom tuned action cut barrel rigs that cant get 1", which could not be the guns fault. All that tells me is that there are no guarantees in life, not that certain things are not worth striving for. To some degree its the luck of the draw,but the more consistent and higher quality of some(most) things, the less variables or relative unknowns you have to deal with.
Happy with results one can get from compact cameras these days, but I also enjoy and appreciate the use and availablity of Canon"L"series pro lenses.
Also apprecaite Leica and others strive to develope higher quality optics like in their latest ultravid compact 10x25rubber binoculars.
Very glad that companies strive to develope more reliable and efficient ocean dive regulators.
I also dont hold back on fishing gear, I use the latest sticks with 98%carbon wrap,carbon reelseat,titanium frame siliconecarbideceramic runners, with the best japanese competition developed reels,. The rods/reels are super light, super strong&sensitive, can use them to cast close into mangroves for smaller species and later in the day use them to rip into some fast heavy run surface fish. I can tell you they are a complete pleasure when casting all day cause of balance lightness and efficiency, and the drags are decievingly good on those small quality reels when hitting the bigger fish. The modern lines are thin that you can have delicate cast,and also give you better spool capacity and high breaking strain strength to tackle the larger species all on the same high tech rod&reel.

Using well designed premium gear be it rifle,optics,fishing pole&reel, musical instruments etc is not the answer to everything, but, it can assist in bringing out the best in a person and the experience(user or maker),instill confidence and become an extension of your natural ability whatever skill or level that be.

I appreciate custom guns,but as time goes on, I appreciate/prioritise some things more than others. For example; I would rather first spend $$ on getting the foundation basics of high integrity of metal precision/stock geometry/rifle balance, than having ultra fancy wood,extensive integral&octagonal barrel work, elaborate engraving/gold inlay.
A good clean sharply put together, but somewhat plain jane in appearance rifle, has its own merit/rewards and just about always remains a strong foundation to add most anything worthwhile to.
having said that, I appreciate some integral features such as bolt handle,barrel band,scope bases,to me they are not fancy features,but more a failsafe method of construction.

Not everyone wants or needs to be top of their field or build all their needs&desires themselves. Some just apprecaite technology and what others have done, and cause they dont have the time to do all things themselves, will VISA one into their possession. Nothing wrong with that.
EG;There may be a guy who values the Kurz Mauser action,wants 300saum, 7lb scoped for mountain work, with weather impervious Synthetic stock and metal coating,wants a shorter barrel but no velocity loss,wants reduced recoil.
With his Visa he can get what "best" suites him,ie;
-A new Kurz mauser receiver in modern steel to better/best? handle 300saum pressures,
-A high quality synthetic Edge type stock from Mcmillan or other,
-Advanced metal coatings from a variety of providers,
-A polygonal bore tube for increased velocity to compensate for shorter barrel,
-A well designed muzzle break.
So what you have is a person who knows what he needs or wants to best enjoy and function well in his hunting, and has used his nouse to research available products for a close to ideal end result for himself.
Thats a win/win cause both customer and manufacturer are rewarded for time and money they have both invested.
Peoples priorities and skills vary, but such diversity can also mean that they benefit&complement each other.
And in real terms the customer is not wasting time and money chasing the elusive best, in fact it can be the opposite, he has paid someone else to help provide the best for him in often shorter time and less expense of doing all the developing and manufacturing himself....which could mean much more time for hunting for those who prefer to put more of their time/money in that direction,dont you agree?.
No doubt there are those who cant find what they want and are inspired to create and share it, thats good Too~!
My FreedomArms casull was more gun than I ever needed, but I sure did appreciate and enjoy such a strong well put together piece. I purchased & used it with full pleasure,then gave it away to a friend,.. who liked it so much that he insisted on paying for it!
Someone could see a person at the range with an orange or brite yellow colored syn.stocked mauser/S&B scope, Leica-APO spot scope,customGScHV bullets and think they are some sort of goofy/austentatious dude with lots of money trying to impress. But one could also be very wrong by relying on superfical assumption, for the guy could be someone not with lots of money,but understands the application and need of certain things and has made sacrifices to able to afford them, you know, maybe he just doesnt buy showroom new cars or not as often, or hasnt absorbed all his money into buying a truelly unneccesarily big a house as some other folk.

I recall a famous guitarist who disguised himself and played his music in a busy public place, a small number of people sort of milled around not taking much notice of him. Gradually he began to reveal his identity, and when people started to cotton on, they began to OooH!&Ahhhh! and congratulate and cheer more and more and cell phone their friends,workmates to come down and see a great star "perform".
A typical example of disfunctional mind programming and inheret flaws in the ultra common preconceived human thought processess.
 
Posts: 2134 | Registered: 12 May 2005Reply With Quote
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