I was talking to a gun smith on Friday who said that all new Remington actions are made on CNC machines and are therefore all exactly the same within small tolerances with regards to squareness to the centerline of the receiver including the bolt face and locking lugs. I was greatly surprised after reading all the comments on here and other places about the necessity to lap the lugs, square the bolt face, etc.and other things to make a really accurate rifle with Remington actions. Any comments, thoughts, or facts are appreciated.

Hunter66654,

Welcome to the forum.

They probably are made on CNC machines, but that cannot, by itself, be used as a guarantee of quality.

We have many Remington rifles through here, and sadly, the quality is like a hit a miss thing with them.

One might turn out to be a keeper as it comes out of the box. While many others require a lot of work to get them up to the standards we like to see our rifles like.

I don't think you understand the way manufacturing works - Every part has tolerances on every dimension so parts can interchange without hand fitting. So, if a part is spec'd at +/- .005, the company doesn't care if the first one is +.0005 and the fiftieth is -.0048 The part is good - They don't wan't to spend time adjusting for tool wear, thermal drift, etc.. They just want to produce. Hell, the Haas's actually have clocks in em for on, run, and feed time. See, the big advantage to companies who make the same damn thing day in, day out is that they can use unskilled labor to actually do the production, say $8 USD an hour versus what a Machinist makes: $15 and up.. Ain't technology wonderful?

Toolmaker

P.S. I included Haas's website so ya can take alok see at what these things can do and what they cost!

web page

I assure you.....CNC is no assurance of quality.....it's human effort that produces quality.....

and I further assure you that ISO 9000 certification does not assure quality.....what a crock of $hit

Sadly, the gunsmith to whom you were speaking was full of crap. Regards, Bill.

Remington, like almost every major U.S firearms manufacture, uses very dated machines, machines that should have been removed during the 70s. Many many machines making the same part over and over, and becoming more sloppy by the day.
You see, corprate big wigs dont want to spend money because by the time it starts paying off (numbers shown) they will be retired.

But who is complaning? same old rednecks buy there rifles.

on the iso 9000.. AMEN...

most of the grizzly products are 9000... nuff said?

jeffe

As someone who went through (twice) initial qualifications at my job for ISO 9000 (actually ISO 9001 - for design, not manufacturing) certification - it's no guarantee of quality. It just guarantees that there are a variety of processes (determined by the company being certified) in place to handle customer complaints etc and look into any problems and solve them. Acceptable solutions include doing absolutely nothing. All certified companies must have the certifications done by outside companies every three years to keep their certificate, this checks that the processes are taught to new employees and the correct records kept on how these processes are being followed; but actually improving problem areas isn't something that is required to be done.

CNC machinery CAN make high quality parts and products. Example: BAT and Nesika actions. Building actions with the small clearances and small tolerances used in these actions would be extremely time consuming and require highly skilled toolmakers and machinists. Additional inspections required at various steps would also drive the time and cost up to unacceptable levels.
The multi-axis capabilities and repeatability of current CNC machines allows us to have better products at affordable prices and produce items that are nearly impossible to produce with manual machines and techniques.
Anybody want to try to produce a dozen one-piece Nesika bolts on their mill and lathe? To the same tolerances and finishes that Nesika offers, of course.

Jay