A few weeks ago I noticed in the new Midway gunsmithing catalog that one of the uses for their tap handles is for "chamber reaming" or something like that.
Can you do any sort of reasonable chambering work with a hand held reamer? I have never read that, but I suppose it could be easily done if you were just concerned about hunting accuracy, but then speaking of easy it could also be an easy way to get an out of round chamber (in fact I have trouble thinking you could make a round chamber with it...)
Anyway, as always if any of you gurus out there want to shed more enlightenment I'm listening!
Posts: 7775 | Location: Between 2 rivers, Middle USA | Registered: 19 August 2000
Until a friend of mine got a lath, we did several rifles with hand held reamers, and although time consuming its not too hard. Best thing to do is rent a reamer from companies like Shawnee Tool and that way you get a newly sharpened reamer each time.And you need to use plenty of cutting oil.
Posts: 200 | Location: Tin Top .Texas | Registered: 21 August 2001
If you can find a copy of Brownell's Gunsmith Kinks Vol. 1, there is a detailed article on chambering wherein the job is finished by turning the reamer by hand.
Posts: 497 | Location: Lewistown, PA USA | Registered: 21 December 2000
Can you do any sort of reasonable chambering work with a hand held reamer?
Yep........Use the tap handle to hold the reamer and spin the barrel in the lathe's headstock. Feed the reamer with the tailstock using a center pushing in the dimple in the end of the reamer. Set everything up straight and true, run the lathe real slow. If something grabs let go fast. I have done many chambers this way. To feed by power you need a collant pump. I don't have one so I do it this way and take the reamer out frequently to re-oil and clean out the chips.
Posts: 813 | Location: Left Coast | Registered: 02 November 2000
It is common procedure to use a tap handle as a driver and support the reamer on the tailstock center. Although there are concerns about side pressure etc. the method seems to work as well as any providing that the barrel is set up well and the tailstock is in proper alignment with the barrel. Finishing the chamber by hand was common procedure among some of the "old timers" and was done through the action using an extension. This was done for the last few thousanths only. I don"t like the idea of holding the reamer by hand while reaming in the lathe as it is an invitation to chatter. Regards, Bill.
I can see holding the barrel in a lathe, that setup is similar to the tapping fixtures you use with a drill press to make sure everything stays straight. I was wondering how it would work with the barrel stationary and turning the tap by hand. I don't have any of the gunsmith kink books, but now have another reason to get them, if they have an article on doing this. It still seems more precise and less risky to do it on a lathe but my lathe is too small to do it on, and I don't have a steady rest for it either. I'll need a little more convincing though, so keep those opinions coming! I can always use a bigger lathe than mine, but then doing it by hand would have a certain quality to it also.
Posts: 7775 | Location: Between 2 rivers, Middle USA | Registered: 19 August 2000
Kuhnhausen's manual says to position the barrel straight up and down. Using generous amounts of oil, finish reaming(short chambered barrels) by hand, by turning the reamer with a T-Handle or similar device.
Mike
------------------ Victory through superior firepower!
Posts: 324 | Location: GA, USA | Registered: 20 April 2002
It can be done and has been done lots of times but I sure wouldn't do it..There is just no way to guarentee you are always center...I have done it only to Improve a Hornet and it made me nervous then...
I have done this several times on "short chambered" bbls. BUT-you have to use some common sense. Unless you have a way to set the bbl up absolutely straight, such as in a lathe, you cannot take out much metal without fear of "egging" the chamber. An example might help. My most recent project was a .30-06 bbl on a VZ24 action. After fitting the bbl to the action, I set up to ream the chamber. My normal procedure for this is to put the bbl in my bbl vise, which is set up just above waist level, and use a large (16"/18", haven't measured it) tap wrench to turn the tap. After a couple of rounds of "turning, cleaning, checking,lubing", I discovered that this chamber truly was "short", and I was going to have to remove a lot of metal. After a bit of soul searching/cussing, I boxed it up and sent it to a 'smith for reaming.
As I had already fitted the bbl, and all the 'smith had to do was ream it and screw it on, it was relatively inexpensive. Did cost me the reamer rental fee, in addition. Well, sometimes chicken, sometimes feathers. I do this for a hobby, not to make money.
I guess the bottom line is, don't go beyond your capabilties.
It is really very simple. You place the barrel in the vice- vertically, put the tap handle on the reamer, place the reamer in the barrel, and use a live center for the lathe, to put the cutting pressure on the reamer. That way all the cutting pressure is in the center of the reamer and all you are using the tap handle for is turning the reamer. You will not get an egg shaped chamber in this manner, works very well for that last few thousandts for that perfect headspace.
Ok that sounds like a workable solution, but how does one fix the live center into position, and then apply a downforce with it? Anything special or just make up something that clamps to the vise?
Posts: 7775 | Location: Between 2 rivers, Middle USA | Registered: 19 August 2000
Mark- the tail end of the reamer already has a center cut in it- used for holding the reamer blank while grinding. Clamp the barrel in the vise, hold the live center in the tail of the reamer with one hand and turn with the other using just enough pressure to make the reamer cut. Doing it in this manner puts all of the down pressure in the center of the reamer and keeps your work nice and straight.
Thanks for the clarification! That does sound like something that is easily done and able to be carefully done as well. Additionally, I think it would be easy enough to make up a fixture that would allow the live center to be mechanically centered too.
Thanks again!
Mike,
A live center is used at the stationary end of the lathe, to provide some support to that end. It has a bearing in it to allow it to turn freely, here is a pic:
If it didn't have a bearing in there, meaning if it were just a solid piece of metal, then it would be a dead center because it wouldn't turn and all the rotational pressure is taken up where it contacts at the point.
Here is a picture, if you look at the tailstock (the end that doesn't turn) you can see the dead center inserted into it
Posts: 7775 | Location: Between 2 rivers, Middle USA | Registered: 19 August 2000
Aha, so how much for one of those and where would I get it?
Aren't the Shilen short chambered barrels about .020" short? How many turns/ how long does it normally take to finish one. I understand about the stopping, cleaning, and checking with a headspace guage, but would I need to give half a turn, three or four turns, etc.. I know once the metal is gone you can't put it back! I would hate to have to have it requalified and start over.
mike
------------------ Victory through superior firepower!
Posts: 324 | Location: GA, USA | Registered: 20 April 2002
I'd suggest ebay, you can get one for 5-25 dollars there. You can also get one new for $23 from Grizzly.com. If you get one from Grizzly you might as well order one of there $6.95 1" micrometers as well. They aren't as good as a Starret or other quality mike but they aren't bad, and would work fine for checking things like bullets and cases.
Posts: 7775 | Location: Between 2 rivers, Middle USA | Registered: 19 August 2000
Hey don't worry about distorting a thread! Have you ever noticed how if you click on the second page of a thread it usually has no relevance to the subject posted? But to my way of thinking this is all relevant.....
Posts: 7775 | Location: Between 2 rivers, Middle USA | Registered: 19 August 2000
You could set it up in a large drill press. Chuck up the live center and use the press handle to apply pressure. My press has room to swing a 12in tap handle.
RR
Posts: 227 | Location: West Central Sask | Registered: 16 December 2000
Most drill presses will not gear down to a slow enough speed to do a good finish ream. That and the risk is rather high of going too deep and defeating the purpose. But the drill press feed can be used to hold the live center and provide feed pressure.
Posts: 211 | Location: Little Rock, AR. USA | Registered: 23 May 2002
I mean this is some pretty scary stuff and a very confusing thread, it goes from conventional chambering to hacking out a chamber...the original was can you chamber a rifle by hand and the answer is only if your lucky...
Actually if barrel makers wanted to simplify the process they would "long chamber" the barrels as opposed to short chambering them..that way you could cut your threads and whack them off to headspace....
Ray; You can buy barrels that are ong chambered as you suggested from a couple of barrel makers. As for if you can get a good chamber by hand it is all in the "hand" and care of the person doing it, just as it is when a barrel is chambered in the lathe SLOPPY doesn't cut it right.
Duane, Yes, I'm aware that some make the long chamber....
I have a policy and that is when I turn out work it is the very best or it stays home with me, and perhaps one can turn a chamber by hand with some degree of success, I would consider that unprofessional and iffy, at best and choose not to do so....Just my call on the subject and I won't deprive anyone from doing it anyway they want. I believe their are gunsmiths and gun butchers and they are seperated by doing it right in the first place.....
Ray, I would not ream a chamber by hand for a customer either, but I have done one just to see if it could be done with a degree of accuracy, and it can. In the so called spring of 1998 we had a snow storm dump a couple of feet of wet snow, and we lost our electricty for 10 days. To keep from going stir crazy I reamed the chamber of my 22ppc by hand, I figured I didn't have much to redo if it didn't work. The rifle is an excellent shooter, and the fired cases are excellent. I would not do it again because it takes too long(3 hours) for a job that would have taken less then 30 min. to finish in the lathe. I guess I have to wonder how the comment about gun butcher fits the answer to the question, all you need to be a gun butcher is an opinion and a screwdriver.
Duane, Well, I can't argue with that...As I said, I have improved 22 Hornet chambers with a hand reamer, but all in all, I don't consider it a good practice..
We had a gunsmith?? in my town that hand chambered all his rifles by hand..I know a couple of gunsmiths that made a liveing re-barreling them...
First, just because something CAN be done does not necessarily mean it SHOULD be done. That being said, there is no reason the chamber could not be hand reamed while still attached to the receiver, Or lathe reamed either for that matter. Provided the appropriate extention and guides are available, and used, to hold the reamer. It does make chip clearing a bit diceier, and makes everything less visible and accessable. But I've done it. Which is also why I wouldn't advise it.
Posts: 211 | Location: Little Rock, AR. USA | Registered: 23 May 2002
The use of a good breast drill is also possible. I did a swollen chamber on a junk Arisaka, reaming it out to 6.5-.257, I used a pilot sized to the bore, and it turned out pretty good for a first try. I only had a go gauge, so shimmed it with .004" stock for a no go measurement.
Gee- This thread is interesting. Yes YOU CAN Ream by hand, leave the action attached or use a drill press and sometimes even get away with it. Heck when I was a kid I reamed a 30-06 chamber in a 6.5 Jap rifle and actually fired a 30 caliber bullet out of it. It worked fine and swaged that 30 caliber bullet down to 6.5mm without blowing up. I showed to a gunsmith in town and he could not believe it. I would not even think about such a thing today. That doesn't mean that any of these approaches are a good thing to do. I wonder if anyone has bothered to make a cerrosafe cast of their hand reamed chambers and really looked carefully at what they have done. Many times its pretty sobering. I'm told that Thompson Center used to chamber their contender barrels using a drill press and given the number of bad barrels and cockeyed chambers that I've seen from them, I believe this to be true. Even amongst Smiths who know what they are doing and produce match winning rifles, there is no consensus about what is the best approach, however, the ones who consistently produce the best results all use really good lathes,piloted reamers with flood oiling systems for chip removal and JGS floating reamer holders ( big bucks). They usually go REAL slow and in the end their chambers look like polished glass. It took me 6 hours to chamber my last .50BMG match barrel for example. Their isn't any real substitute for high quality work by people who know what they are doing and are willing to spend the time.
Posts: 6314 | Location: Las Vegas,NV | Registered: 10 January 2001
I have done 2 that count by hand, one was a .222 chambered barrel that I reamed to a .219 Zipper, the other was a .303 British barrel that was set back 1 1/2 turns. The .303 turned out perfect, the .219 is another story, the chamber cast was as smooth as a baby's behind but the fired cases showed definite chatter type ridges sorta like a fluted chamber. I am going to spend the money for a floating reamer holder. MR
Posts: 58 | Location: ALASKA | Registered: 02 March 2001
So YOU were the guy?!!! I've heard the 30-06 Arisaka Squeezebore story so many times, I thought it was just an Urban Legend. I've got a Model 44 and I can see how the action could probably take it a few times. I wouldn't want to make a habit of it though.
Posts: 211 | Location: Little Rock, AR. USA | Registered: 23 May 2002
