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This one got me going on another forum. Apparently my method was wrong. How do you do it? The answer I got was, bottom on the thread???? not on the head. Jim Kobe 10841 Oxborough Ave So Bloomington MN 55437 952.884.6031 Professional member American Custom Gunmakers Guild | ||
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British screws bottom in both places, not our American ones. Depends on the gun I am building a screw for. Steve | |||
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Eh...what?? Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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uh...I know nothing about gunsmithing nor am I a machinist...but I am struggling with the idea that some British gunmaker is going to time the screw so that both the bottom threads and the underside of the head bottom out at exactly the same point with the same torque... Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Mike, I agree with you. If I time one it is removing material from the bottom of the head. Butch | |||
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Anyone who times the slot of a screw by bottoming the thread, doesn't understand the mechanics of holding things tight... _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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Kobe- It all boils down to this-some people actually know and have done, while the vast majority of people read things and then repeat them anytime something is asked. I have noticed that the readers are usually the first to answer questions. Just as when we were kids and put in a circle and told to whisper a secret in the ear of the person beside you, the story was all cocked up by the time it made it around the circle. I know the article by McIntosh that he is talking about, but he is applying the technique to all contexts, which is wrong. I have seen that guy (99.9% sure it is him) on other boards and at times he makes Akmadenijahd (however you spell the Iranian president's name) look very diplomatic when he talks about Isreal. From what he has written on other forums I am not sure he even owns a screwdriver, much less made a screw from scratch. | |||
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Steve- That is the context of the McIntosh article. But this guy said that is how all fine guns and rifles fit and time all of their screws-wood and metal. He said that all screws, "even the ones on the inside of a bolt action", were perfectly timed on fine guns. I know I always have a hell of a time getting the slots lined up on the little screws inside a Mauser's bolt body. Damn near as hard as timing the screws inside a pre-64 Model 70 extractor. BTW-when making new Mauser guard screws, i have left the head long, fit the screw, and then cut the slot as Mc describes. | |||
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Steve- Lighten up and laugh a little. It is not all that serious or the end of the world. Of course there is a difference between something like a sidelock single shot or double and a Mauser. I think bridles should also be engraved and all of their screws timed. But this is not a life or death matter here. And yes, i have spent some time with DT and know all about the books and articles. | |||
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Since you guys are not telling yet, I will guess that aligning the screws allows you to tell if a screw is backing out, or if you have wood compression and the screw had to turn further C/W to compensate? Inquiring minds want to know!! DRSS(We Band of Bubba's Div.) N.R.A (Life) T.S.R.A (Life) D.S.C. | |||
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Unless we are talking blind holes how can a screw tighten at the head and not pull tight in the threads?. | |||
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This is probably going to be amazing. In the end, the "best" gunsmiths off course make the iron themselves, turn it into steel, make the screw, and by compression testing make sure that all screws line up with the exact number with at least 6 digits of preassure on both head and bottom af the screw. And those who does not, are bubba-hacksaw-billybobs. Oh, yes, and they all play banjo. Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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Mr. Hughes did a much better job of explaining things than I did....we see things the same best I can tell. Steve | |||
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The gunsmithing screws that I have seen Dustin Mounts install have tall blank heads. Dustin or Sean cut a slot in the top, set the screw properly, make a witness mark and the cut the head to size and cut a new slot aligned properly! Nothing to it! The crew can be removed for engraving and then re-installed. Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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I do a fair amount of work on Winchester single shots, original old high and low walls as well as customs made on the actions. I try to keep a selection of the most common screws for them, and then usually swap the screws until I find the ones that align without any persuasion. These older screws are usually made from low-carbon steel and then case-hardened, so cutting them after hardening is problematic and of course hardening them after cutting can also cause problems, so.... For other rifles I always cut from the bottom of the screw head. The witness-mark method described above will give good results IF and only IF the smith first burnishes the rough edges of the threads and screw head recess. If not, I've found that, over time and with repeated disassembly, the screw's fit becomes loose enough to require further tightening, thus misaligning the slot. Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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if you used allen-wrench heads, would they still need to be aligned?????  go big or go home ........ DSC-- Life Member NRA--Life member DRSS--9.3x74 r Chapuis | |||
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Dang, I've been doing it all wrong, Shouldnt one time a screw by the amount of alcohol that is gone from a full bottle?  Sorry, but it worked for me when nothing else would!_____________________ Steve Traxson | |||
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How do you get the same level of marring to the slots - get the tip of the screwdriver to skid out the same number of times with the same pressure applied? | |||
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Yes, the hexes have to all have the same orientation. Same for torx heads; the human eye can detect incredibly small degrees of misalignment. That's why I use rivets. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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I would think that screws are used for one of 3 purposes,to hold things TOGETHER,to hold things ON,and to hold things TIGHT. I have never bothered to take the extra time to time screw slots,just as I have never taken the time to meticulously finish the parts that do not show and would NEVER pay the price to buy such an item where this was done as a matter of course. I think it to be an extreme waste of time. I admire such work as a matter of the skill of the craftsman but that is all. I personally doubt it makes the item inherently BETTER. The British seem to place great emphasis on this practice more so than most. This is of course a personal opinion. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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