It looks like I'm going for a custom made 375H&H rifle instead of a factory one at the moment. One gunsmith here suggested using a MRC 1999 action, while another said the 1999 he had seen was very rough inside and out and didn't like the quality at all. He suggests using a Win. M70 pre64 instead. Could the action he saw have been an earliy one? Are they better now?



On the other hand, if I wait for some time (a long time?), I could maybe get a Magnum Mauser action from Vector in RSA... But I'm not sure of the price? Anyone know?



What do you guys advise?



Erik D.



www.dunia.no



EDIT: Thanks to Johan, I know that the price is about 10.000 rands (US$1400).

Erik, I don't really want to comment on the Pre-64 M70, it is such a religious thing about those actions...

Regarding the MRC 1999 action, use the search facility in this forum to look for testimonies of people who have actually held the action in their hands, and who have either started or finished projects with it. More and more are added "each day". I think you'll find that the overwhelmeing majority have been happy with their MRC actions. I don't know what standards your smith subscribes to? Some smiths in here have noted that the 1999 can be improved, but most also say it is hardly necessary purely in functional terms. So I guess it comes down to your sense of quality, and what you are willing to pay to get there. Are you looking for a working rifle, or for a piece of art (either is fine, it depends on what you want).

Can you get Pre-64 M70s in Norway?? If yes, I'm suitably impressed with the used gun market in Norway!
- mike

I haven't seen the 1999 action. Enough people that I respect have looked at it and given it a good report. However, if I had the choice I would use the pre-64 instead. Furthermore, if I had the option of selecting a Vector or Granite Mountain action, I would go that route over all of the other options.

Good luck..........Roger

I would choose the Win. Pre 64 hands down over the Montana action....Or a Mauser mod 98....

I had a Montana action and sold it...several things I did not like about it such as the gas port below the woodline, now thats is dumb unless you like chunks of wood blown out or want to cut an unsightly gap in the wood. Also I had some problem with finding a proper bottom metal for the 404 that would fit the Montana action...so I am using a CZ...

Just opinnion however.

Erick,

Just buy a new M70 Classic in that caliber and use the rifle as is. The ones that I have seen are good performers.

Of course if your fussy or want to show it too then you can have the various components upgraded. You may find however that the barreled action is just fine. That's a really good start.

A club member who has been to Africa a number of times and who is adding a trophy room to his house uses such a stock M70. It's his favorite rifle. As a side note he seems to buy a new gun every week but that Winchester is the one that goes in the truck.

I'd go with a pre-64 Model 70 any day, or a current Classic for that matter. For one thing, the pre-64s were machined from a solid block of the very finest chrome-moly steel available (some 75 seperate machining proceedures!) then heat-treated. No cheap, rough, investment-cast, small-shop, budget-oriented expedients for Winchester!

The current Classic is built from a solid, forged billet of best-grade chrome-moly steel that is completely machined to final form. Forging in this manner before machining (Colt has always done it this way with 1911 slides and frames, and for the same reasons) improves the grain structure of the steel significantly, and after machining, the receiver and bolt are very precisely heat-treated. Again, this makes for a much more precise and durable receiver, and one that is much smoother. Quite frankly, the resources available in the old, pre-64 days at Winchester and at USRAC today simply cannot be matched by a small outfit, and greatly effect the over-all quality and performance of the finished product.

Go with the Model 70. Besides, that "Winchester" logo on the receiver greatly adds to the value of the rifle, and there will be Model 70 parts available long after some of these small outfits have bitten the dust and are forgotten.......

AD

I think if the rifle is to be a high grade 375 H&H then I would definitely not use the Montana action. To my way of thinking investment casting simply does not go together with a custom 375 H&H.

Mike

I have only had my 280rem on a MRC action put together a week or so but I love it so far. I guess I could have had it all polished up and all of that but I really don't see the need as everything functions etc as advertised and it will be working quite often. I plan on using the rifle alot this year and a test of time will be the best indicator. My only problem with this project was my own fault, I gave McMillan the colors for my stock and when I received it it was just plain butt ugly so I prolonged the job by sending the stock to be camo dipped in Mossy Oak Break-up. I shot it the first time the other night off the truck hood and pillows and pulled groups at appx 1-1.5 so I am going to try to make the range this weekend and do some fine tuning.

BTW-I have a zeiss 3x9 Conquest for glass

Doug

The processing (largely cosmetic) Serengeti applies to the M1999 makes it even more attractive than the basic M1999 - albeit at the cost of polishing (etc) the action.



Current production M70 actions can (IMHO) be pretty touch and go in terms of dimensional integrity. Your chance of running into all sorts of interesting problems such as crooked threads, un-aligned mount holes, etc, is definitely real. I'm not saying all current production M70 actions have dimensional problems, but I maintain your chances of encountering such problems are bigger than with a M1999 (way bigger, in fact).



If you go the M1999 route, you also start out with an action - as opposed to starting out with a rifle to be disassembled to provide a donor action. That means, you deliver the action to your favourite smith, and ask the question "is this action dimensionally sound?". If the answer is "yes", the project continues. If no, at least you have the option of going to MRC and asking for help in rectifying the problem. MRC has a history of standing by their products, and I'm sure they would replace an action if it was out of spec - btw, MRC's specs are a bunch tighter than M70 specs.

- mike

Wally, I'm not exactly a stranger to the work of fine riflesmithing shops that can, and indeed do perform meaningful improvements to the basic Model 70 action.

I don't mean things like action blueprinting, new bolt handles, fine trigger adjustments, reshaped tangs, built-up bolt releases, etc., etc. I'm talking about the construction of the basic action itself.

But I think you know that...........

AD

I would like to read some additional comments on tuned MRC -the Serengeti action vs. a Classic Winchester M-70 action .

Which would you choose and why?