I'm beating around ideas for building a rifle for my '05 trip to Namibia. I like traditional stuff so that has an influence on my decisions. A Model 70 in 300 H&H seems like it would be just right.

I found a used Model 70 at my gun shop. It is a classic crf action with matte bluing in 7mm Rem mag with a 26" barrel and black synthetic stock. Seemed like kind of a strange combo but I guess they must have offered this configuration some years back. They are asking $399 and I can probably get it for $375. The gun is in very good condition. I figure I can ebay the stock and barrel and have $275 in the action.

Is there anything I should be concerned about on this gun. The price seemed low to me. The same shop had a couple used super grades on the shelf for $799. Double the cost of the one I'm looking at. It just through up a flag.

Are there any problems rebarreling this action to 300 H&H?

Thanks.

the price is low.. and i'ld take it 400 if i was looking for a win action....

there's not a kill of beans difference in "killing" between a 300 hh and a 7 mag...

if you pass on the action, email me with details, place


jeffe

USRAC made some matte/blued CRF Model 70 Classics with synthetic stocks in the mid-late 1990s, and these make for some pretty good doner actions, and your price is excellent. Unless your riflemaker sees some glaring problem that can't be corrected, I'm sure it'll work well for your .300 H&H project.

The thing to keep in mind is that the .300 H&H is the same length as the .375 H&H, so you'll need a different magazine box and follower, as well as a different bolt stop. These parts are readily-available from USRAC thru Brownells www.brownells.com. You can also order a special, top-quality magazine box and follower system from Ted Blackburn www.blackburnmachine.com that will allow you to hold four-down, plus you can get fine quality, commercial Mauser-style milled-steel triggerguard/floorpate assemblies that'll really make your project.

For the .300 H&H, you'll need to have your riflemaker open (remachine) the loading port to ensure 100%-reliable ejection and easy loading. This is the only real disadvantage in going with an action machined for the short belted magnums. You'll notice that Model 70 receivers for .375 H&H, 7mm STW, and .416 Rem. all have the loading ports opened at the factory to accomodate these cartridges, just as for the .300 H&H. One of my friends picked up a Classic Sporter in 7mm STW a number of years ago for a doner action upon which to build a .300 H&H. It worked perfectly.......

AD

Check out these links. You can get a 7mm STW that is already the proper length mag box etc... for the same money. These are all priced $399-$450. The extra $50 dollars or so will be saved in gunsmithing costs to alter the 7 mag action and parts for it.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976475587.htm

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976488272.htm

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976488272.htm

Something I thought of when I bought a (push feed) M70 in 7mm Rem Mag a few years ago: The 7mm with 175 grain bullet just about exactly duplicates the muzzle velocity and energy of the 180 grain .300 H&H Magnum. It's got a better ballistic coefficient, though. Having been around since 1962, the 7mm Rem Mag has a pretty good start on being "traditional" now.

If I get this gun I will be tempted to shoot it as is and see if it's a shooter. I used to have a 7mm and have everything I need to work up some loads. With the 26" barrel it should really go. Some 160 Barnes Triple Shock bullets at around 3100 fps would be just the ticket if a long range shot came up.

Allen Day, I was not aware that I would have to make those kind of mods if I was going magnum to magnum. Looking now I see what you are talking about with the extra length of the H&H. What kind of cost can I expect for the mod to the ejection port and the new mag box (assuming factory replacement)?

Chamber in 300RUM, holding reamer off 0.250 or so and shortening dies equal amount.

More effiecent case and you'll be doing your part to stamp out $#^*) useless belts.

Wally,

I totally agree about the $)*&#!* worthless belts!!!!!!!!!!!! When I first found a referance that explained where the belt came from and that it really didn't add ANY strength to the cartridge I was rather upset with the cartridge companies for keeping it around so damned long to say the least! On the H&H cartridges it did serve a useful purpose for headspacing, but the fact that it has lingered for the last 50 years to be used as a marketing tool trying to associate other cartridges with the power of the H&H mags is really upsetting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Especially with the inconvenience it can be!

That "useless belts" comment sounds great on paper, but in practice belted cartidges have served me well for over twenty-seven years. I guess I must have been doing something wrong for all this time, because they haven't given me any problems at all.........

AD

WyattD, unfortunately, not all riflesmiths are created equal. There are a few who can carry out all of the modifications perfectly, and there are those who would screw it up pretty badly. The cost is not so very great, since you'll need to have the action blueprinted anyway, but they key is to find the right riflesmith. If you insist on a .300 H&H, it may be easiest to find a Model 70 in 7mm STW or .300 Wby. for a doner action.

Your other alternative is to turn your action into, as has been mentioned, a 7mm Rem. Mag. or a .300 Win. Mag. Either one will do whatever the .300 H&H will do, without the need to open the loading port, etc., and brass and ammo are more widely-available. Something to consider.........

AD

I spoke with the smith that I planned on using and he wasn't crazy about modifying the action. He suggested a couple other calibers. 308 Norma and 30-338. He said those would pretty much be a rebarrel and go. I don't know much about those two rounds.

I don't see any practical reason to choose one of those two chamberings over the regular old .300 Win. Mag......

AD

oh, no, not the "useless belt" mafia again. Tell you what, maybe 50 years from now, we can revisit this issue and we'l see if the 300Win Mag & 30 Weatherby have been relegated to the "ash heap" of history. Wonder why they keep outselling all the Ultra-nonsense calibers. I'd go with the 300 Win and save yourself all the intricacies of reworking the action extensively. jorge

Jorge, I wonder how many high-power championships have been won and how many award-winning trophy rooms have been filled through the use of belted-magnum cartridges? How many African professional hunters and clients have founded careers upon the use of belted-magnum cartridges?

And yet some small-town, crossroads hawkshaw who hasn't shot jack will point out how very problematic belted cartridges are. Sort of like Chicken Little running through the streets shouting to one and all that "the sky is falling, the sky is falling!" And the guys who've hunted with belted magnums extensively for years will listen to this stuff, shake their heads, sometimes yawn, and sometimes laugh.........

AD

Yep, it's amazing how many folks jump on the bandwagon when a new-fangled idea comes out. Mind you, if one just wants a new caliber "just because" I have no issue with that. But "just because" they now own it they disparage time-proven reliable calibers like the 300 Winchester, Weatherby, etc, then I take issue. Tell you what, years from now, maybe they'll be another Elgin Gates, Herb Klien, O'Connor, keith, etc and if and when they achieve the same level of accomplishments these gentlemen achieved with a WSSM, RUM SAUM, etc, we can talk. jorge

Wally, that was my point exactly. Matter of fact, some of the BEST cartridges in exixtence COME with a belt. jorge

All this defending of "the belt" is silly. Sure there are plenty of fine cartridges that have them and the cartridges themselves "work", but that says nothing about the fact that the belt is there for no good reason.

I find it ironic that the biggest short mag critics who are so offended by their "hype" seem to be the same ones who took the belted magnum "hype" hook line and sinker a couple decades ago.

Take a look at the 8X68s, that is a true non belted Magnum and I garantee that however well you can get a 300 WM to feed that the above case can be made to feed better. Dont need no stinking belt..

I do like the way Marlin employed a belted case in the 450 Marlin as opposed to a rimmed cartridge though. At least there it serves a practical purpose.

Gents: Not defending the belt itself as a "stand alone" proposition, but the disparaging of a particular cartridge BECAUSE it has a belt. There is a difference. The 8X68S is a great cartridge indeed, but I've only seen one rifle and one box of ammo since 1976. To me the belt is totally transparent, it just happens that my favorite cartridges ALL have belts. Giess I'm a sucker for good looks and the new WSM, WSSMs, etc look like short little fat-chicks. jorge

Gee, can we argue about something more significant than a belt on the cartridge?

The heck with you guys - I'm designing a wildcat with vertical ridges running from the case head, up around the shoulder and back down the opposite side.

Going to bill it as the worlds first "Suspendered Magnum - No Belt!"

"Hook, line, and sinker" my ass! Mostly what you're out to do is argue, and especially with me.



A twenty and thirty years ago, we simply didn't have a whole lot of choice if we wanted a factory cartridge that provided more velocity and punch than those cartridges based on the .30-06, or some other beltless case. We bought 7mm Rem. Mags., .300 Win. Mags., .338 Win. Mags., a .375 H&H, or else one of the Weatherby magnums. That's what was available, we used them, hunted with them, fired countless rounds through them, and I don't recall anyone ever having any problems with those gawdawful belts. I know that I never did, nor have I to this day.



But I suppose all of us who have been using belted magnums successfully for all these years are supposed to listen to the marketing drivel that tells us were supposed to have been having problems with the belted case (even if we haven't had problems, we're supposed to react!), sit back stupidly, take it all in, and say, "Uhuh, uhuh, uhuh......... BY GOSH! I HAVE HAD PROBLEMS!, urrrrr.... at least that's what they're a-tellin' me! I'm going to ditch that old, faithful .300 Weatherby of mine that I've filled a trophy room with, go get me one of them RUMS or maybe one o' them short, fat jobs!"



That plays out well on paper, and would be music to the ears of outfits like Dakota, Remington, and Winchester but I don't happen to know of anyone of experience who's intellectually-challenged enough to swallow that kind of hype.



No, the belt doesn't ADD anything of value to the case, but it doesn't HURT anything either if the chambering is carried out properly, and if the case is resized properly. One thing is for certain: Those belted magnums based on the .375 H&H case feed better than the short, fat magnums do, provide greater cartridge capacity, higher velocities, equal accuracy, and are much more widely-available and always will be.



AD

Allen
There is one slight disadvantage to belted cartidges in that rifles chambered for them usually hold fewer rounds. Has never been a problem for me though.

Allen, Jorge,

You two are the ones who seems to be arguing for the sake of an arguement here! You 2 lay into anyone who sees what a worthless item a belt is on these cartridges like they're big backers of the new short magnums. Sorry guys, but the only thing about them that impresses me is that the stupid belt is gone! I don't own one, never shot one, hell my only offense is wearing the finish off a couple at local sporting goods store trying to decide if there's anything useful there!

Allen, you claim those belts don't hurt a thing. Am I to believe you've never reloaded a belted mag case?????? Or are you just writing off that bulge that can appear in front of the belt because you can't fully size the case all the way down to the belt as a cost of doing business. I sure as the hell don't!!!!!! That IS a PROBLEM! Or to get greater life out of the case you can buy an additional collet die for about $100. I think that's bullshit just to justify a marketing scheme!

You two, or anyone else for that matter, can't tell me that the 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag, 264 Win Mag, etc....... wouldn't function just as well if not better with out that damned belt on the case!

And for your information I own nearly a dozen chamberings in the belted cases! Sadly neither of the H&H cartridges.

Jorge I guess I wasn't considering the WBY chamberings with the double radius shoulders on them, those might cause headspacing issues W/O the belt. I may own a couple of them and the shoulders look neat, but don't even get me started about how I feel about the reasons Roy did that! There were better more practical alternatives!

So next time before you make a blanket attack at peoples beliefs you'd better get to know your audience!

Yes, I've reloaded belted-magnum cases -- thousands of them. I've been doing so for nearly twenty-seven years. I resize (partial-resize) the case so that the case headspaces on the shoulder and not the belt. That's the only way I've ever approach case resizing, and this method has worked very well for me. Unless you have a poorly cut chamber that is completely off-center, etc., there is absolutely no reason to full-length size the case clear down to the belt.



Yes, I'm argumentive when I'm expected to chime in that belted cases are problematic, especially when they have not been problematic for me, or for anyone else I know. They're only problematic if you make 'em that way, and incorrect resizing proceedures and inept gunsmithing can surely make 'em that way.



I'm not going to denounce something that has served me well, and I will absolutely NOT abandon excellent rifles and cartridges that have worked for me with superb results on scores and scores of big game animals in many states and several foreign countries; have filled my home and office with superb trophy animals, and have faithfully and reliably put deer and elk in the the freezer for more than a quarter of a century. I hate to frustrate and disappoint you by sticking to my guns (no pun intended!) but that's just the way it is. Those manufacturers who are trying to stir things up in order to sell new goods and the stooge gunwriters who serve them need to sell their wares to another brand of pilgrim: I'm just not interested, and I've been around a little too long to be bamboozled with a snakeoil pitch.



One of my local friends has won just about every big game hunting award that can be awarded. He's literally taken all of the world's big game species, and has hunted in just about every country where big game can be hunted over a period of some fifty years. He has a trophy room that's three stories high, and is at least 5,000 sq. ft. in size. Almost all of his hunting has been conducted with a .300 Weatherby (belt and all) that he had built in the early 1950s. That one rifle has gone through four barrels, is well into its fifth, and this gentleman has loaded thousands and thousands of rounds of .300 Wby. ammo for it, and without fuss. If you brought this anti-belt propaganda to him, he likely look at you as if you were demented, and rightfully so.



AD